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Cedar Point | Steel Vengeance | RMC I-Box (Mean Streak Conversion)

MakoMania

Member
I ain't no lawyer, but I'm guessing that Cedar Fair would have to define what 'loose article' actually means, should there come a time when they try to enforce something like that. For example, if it's in a secure, zipped pocket, is it 'loose'?
Exactly, it's not loose, it's secure. The fact they want to prevent the stupidity of the general population from causing injury is understandable but the way they have gone about it is just complete BS.
 

Crazycoaster

Active Member
I’m pretty sure as soon as you buy a ticket/enter the park you’re agreeing to their rules and regulations?

Fair enough if you don’t want to be searched, you just won’t get to ride ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Hixee

Flojector
Staff member
Administrator
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I’m pretty sure as soon as you buy a ticket/enter the park you’re agreeing to their rules and regulations?
You are, but those rules and regulations can't over-ride the local laws.

It's one thing to say "once you're in the queue you aren't allowed to have your mobile phone in your pocket", it's another to say "you must consent to a physical pat-down search by a ride-op". Of course, without the latter it renders the former somewhat useless, but I think legally there will be a line in the sand there. Then again, I'm no lawyer.

It's the cheek of asking you to pay [so much] for the lockers that annoys me. Make them free, or make them nominally cheap (I recall BGW being something like $1 for 2 hours). I did read something somewhere (Reddit?) where someone was saying that they might introduce one of those movable locker schemes for a flat fee...

It's annoying for someone like me who likes to carry a backpack.
 

Rob 92

New Member
It's the cheek of asking you to pay [so much] for the lockers that annoys me. Make them free, or make them nominally cheap (I recall BGW being something like $1 for 2 hours). I did read something somewhere (Reddit?) where someone was saying that they might introduce one of those movable locker schemes for a flat fee...
Apparently Cedar Point have introduced $10 moveable lockers this season which is better than having to pay each time you are forced to use one. Interested to see how this new policy does (or doesn't) work next week; I am not a fan of being forced to pay for lockers.
 

Hixee

Flojector
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Apparently Cedar Point have introduced $10 moveable lockers this season which is better than having to pay each time you are forced to use one. Interested to see how this new policy does (or doesn't) work next week; I am not a fan of being forced to pay for lockers.
I'd be interested to hear how you get on - I'll be there in a month, so would be good to have an idea of the best plan.
 

Snoo

The Legend
Staff member
Social Media Team
You are, but those rules and regulations can't over-ride the local laws.

It's one thing to say "once you're in the queue you aren't allowed to have your mobile phone in your pocket", it's another to say "you must consent to a physical pat-down search by a ride-op". Of course, without the latter it renders the former somewhat useless, but I think legally there will be a line in the sand there. Then again, I'm no lawyer.
The Forth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution gives you an outline of search and seizure in the United States:

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/search-and-seizure-and-the-fourth-amendment.html

As such, given what Cedar Point is saying and not Ohio Revised as the Constitution reigns supreme over all state laws, they have the right to ask you to empty your pockets. They also have the right to remove you from the line or the park. However, they cannot search you without consent or reasonable suspicion of you breaking the law (bulging pockets, using your phone in line, etc). However, if they have no reasonable suspicion and are doing random pat downs, you can deny any official in the park that right without a warrant. Of course, denial means you get removed from line and/or the park.

Now as I am no lawyer as well and have only read up on this due to the nature of the world I live in being of African decent in America (several state laws outside of Ohio (Arizona and NYC I think?) trying to make it ok to perform random pat downs have been legally challenged in the courts as breaking the Forth Amendment), I wouldn't phone this home as fact but given the circumstances as well as the laws in the States, the above seems about right with what they can do.
 

NAPayne31

Member
I rode last night when I was off and the policy is strictly enforced. They had ops walking through the queues telling anyone with a phone out to put it in a locker. Really I found it quite nice to disconnect for awhile while in line but it’s also unfortunate they had to get to this point.

Edit: They are NOT patting people down before they enter the line. It’s just a “if we see it, you can’t have it” kinda deal.
 

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
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^ I'm glad it's an honors system approach - that's a fair compromise.

The Forth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution gives you an outline of search and seizure in the United States:

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/search-and-seizure-and-the-fourth-amendment.html

As such, given what Cedar Point is saying and not Ohio Revised as the Constitution reigns supreme over all state laws, they have the right to ask you to empty your pockets. They also have the right to remove you from the line or the park. However, they cannot search you without consent or reasonable suspicion of you breaking the law (bulging pockets, using your phone in line, etc). However, if they have no reasonable suspicion and are doing random pat downs, you can deny any official in the park that right without a warrant. Of course, denial means you get removed from line and/or the park.

Now as I am no lawyer as well and have only read up on this due to the nature of the world I live in being of African decent in America (several state laws outside of Ohio (Arizona and NYC I think?) trying to make it ok to perform random pat downs have been legally challenged in the courts as breaking the Forth Amendment), I wouldn't phone this home as fact but given the circumstances as well as the laws in the States, the above seems about right with what they can do.
In a wierd way, the NAACP Know Your Rights guide applies here: https://action.naacp.org/page/-/Criminal Justice/Racial_Profiling_Know_Your_Rights_Supplement_6-12-12.pdf

You are on Cedar Point property at the end of the day, which means you need obey their rules regarding safety and proper behavior (no smoking, no trespassing, etc.), or they can kick you off of their property. However, with cell phones, they have no right to actually look into your pocket without a police officer who has justifiable cause. The Ohio Revised Code section Cedar Point quotes (here's the chapter in it's entirety, which gives most guidance to operation of amusement rides in Ohio: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1711) could be used as justifiable cause, however; since carrying a cellphone onto Steel Vengeance would qualify as a misdemeanor, a police officer would need to be present, witnessing the misdemeanor in order to take action - an officer cannot take someone else's hearsay as proof for action for a misdemeanor offense. Therefore, a police officer would need to be immediately there seeing you carry a cellphone onto the ride in order to qualifiably escort you off the property or arrest you - otherwise, they need a warrant.

Yet, if we take a look around other rides at the park, there are similar warnings that are enforced to varying degrees (aka not): Maverick technically requires all riders remove earrings, yet is no often enforced:



Other warnings on needing a strap to secure glasses are also posted, but too are often not enforced. So, it gets pretty ambiguous on Cedar Point insisting on enforcing some warnings, but not others. ... And anyone looking for an excuse to sue an amusement park has been given a great test case. :p

In general, I've taken to not bringing my phone to lighten the load when going around the park, but whole heartedly disapprove of this rule as it:
  1. Feels very unjustified versus other, high g-force roller coasters. Steel Vengeance is not the only roller coaster losing cellphones!
  2. It puts mandatory cost burden on consumers. This is inequitable, creates a lot of disgruntled guests, and overall serves a counterproductive experience. If Cedar Point was truly concerned about safety as a top priority, they would make lockers free for Steel Vengeance.
 

Snoo

The Legend
Staff member
Social Media Team
In general, I've taken to not bringing my phone to lighten the load when going around the park, but whole heartedly disapprove of this rule as it:
  1. Feels very unjustified versus other, high g-force roller coasters. Steel Vengeance is not the only roller coaster losing cellphones!
  2. It puts mandatory cost burden on consumers. This is inequitable, creates a lot of disgruntled guests, and overall serves a counterproductive experience. If Cedar Point was truly concerned about safety as a top priority, they would make lockers free for Steel Vengeance.
These are the two biggest things in this entire discussion. I understand the why but there are better ways to go about this IMO.
 

NAPayne31

Member
^ I'm glad it's an honors system approach - that's a fair compromise.

In a wierd way, the NAACP Know Your Rights guide applies here: https://action.naacp.org/page/-/Criminal Justice/Racial_Profiling_Know_Your_Rights_Supplement_6-12-12.pdf

You are on Cedar Point property at the end of the day, which means you need obey their rules regarding safety and proper behavior (no smoking, no trespassing, etc.), or they can kick you off of their property. However, with cell phones, they have no right to actually look into your pocket without a police officer who has justifiable cause. The Ohio Revised Code section Cedar Point quotes (here's the chapter in it's entirety, which gives most guidance to operation of amusement rides in Ohio: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1711) could be used as justifiable cause, however; since carrying a cellphone onto Steel Vengeance would qualify as a misdemeanor, a police officer would need to be present, witnessing the misdemeanor in order to take action - an officer cannot take someone else's hearsay as proof for action for a misdemeanor offense. Therefore, a police officer would need to be immediately there seeing you carry a cellphone onto the ride in order to qualifiably escort you off the property or arrest you - otherwise, they need a warrant.

Yet, if we take a look around other rides at the park, there are similar warnings that are enforced to varying degrees (aka not): Maverick technically requires all riders remove earrings, yet is no often enforced:



Other warnings on needing a strap to secure glasses are also posted, but too are often not enforced. So, it gets pretty ambiguous on Cedar Point insisting on enforcing some warnings, but not others. ... And anyone looking for an excuse to sue an amusement park has been given a great test case. :p

In general, I've taken to not bringing my phone to lighten the load when going around the park, but whole heartedly disapprove of this rule as it:
  1. Feels very unjustified versus other, high g-force roller coasters. Steel Vengeance is not the only roller coaster losing cellphones!
  2. It puts mandatory cost burden on consumers. This is inequitable, creates a lot of disgruntled guests, and overall serves a counterproductive experience. If Cedar Point was truly concerned about safety as a top priority, they would make lockers free for Steel Vengeance.
I could see the park going away from GoPods after their current contract expires. Yes, lockers are a revenue source but Cedar Point (and Cedar Fair) have been focusing on improving the guest experience as much as possible. Free lockers would improve guest experience thus, in my opinion, making the forfeited revenue from the lockers worth it in the long run.
 

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
Staff member
Moderator
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I mean, it isn't like they have any overhead costs for the FastLane program - just mark that up $10 more to compensate. ;)
 

Jarrett

Most Obnoxious Member 2016
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/story/201807230034

Fun week for Steel Vengeance, some stupid punk threw a packet of hot sauce at an oncoming train and it popped and splashed several people in the eye. First aid had to assist them, flushed a woman’s eyes out and everything. Charged with misdemeanor disorderly conduct.

I swear to god people just get stupider and stupider. I say throw the book at this kid, lock him up and make an example out of him. If our society is getting so stupid that we can’t even have a phone in line maybe an arrest over rider safety is what we need. This “kid” is 17, he knew what he was doing ranged from extremely painful to flat out dangerous, hold him 100% responsible for his actions.

In other news, CP won’t be offering hot sauce packets anymore at any food locations. :p
 

Snoo

The Legend
Staff member
Social Media Team
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/story/201807230034

Fun week for Steel Vengeance, some stupid punk threw a packet of hot sauce at an oncoming train and it popped and splashed several people in the eye. First aid had to assist them, flushed a woman’s eyes out and everything. Charged with misdemeanor disorderly conduct.

I swear to god people just get stupider and stupider. I say throw the book at this kid, lock him up and make an example out of him. If our society is getting so stupid that we can’t even have a phone in line maybe an arrest over rider safety is what we need. This “kid” is 17, he knew what he was doing ranged from extremely painful to flat out dangerous, hold him 100% responsible for his actions.

In other news, CP won’t be offering hot sauce packets anymore at any food locations. :p
You can be put in jail for misdemeanors FYI.. :p
 

Jarrett

Most Obnoxious Member 2016
You can be put in jail for misdemeanors FYI.. :p
Slightly off topic but this is a great point if we’re talking about safety. Has there been any significant case in the past of someone going to jail for doing something dangerous on a ride? Like not a Verrukt type thing but as a guest?
 

Snoo

The Legend
Staff member
Social Media Team
Slightly off topic but this is a great point if we’re talking about safety. Has there been any significant case in the past of someone going to jail for doing something dangerous on a ride? Like not a Verrukt type thing but as a guest?
Most likely but there are hundreds of incidents out there and they typically don't follow up for any of the minor ones such as this which may end up in a short jail sentence. Usually it's the big ones, which almost always leads to a fine or jailtime. I'd suggest Google and devoting some time mostly because I don't want to.. :p
 

EpochEmu

Member
According to Mr. Bybee, a new solution is being tested in the form of bags for cell phones on the trains.
This doesn’t make sense to me, why does the phone need to be on the train? Can’t they just get a box in the station?
 

GuyWithAStick

Captain Basic
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
A bin in the station means people need to cross over the train to put all of their stuff into one box. That takes time. Instead, people just sit down and put their phones in the bags conveniently in front of them. Takes much less time, and is a lot less confusing. It's not the best solution, but it's a solution for now.
 

Hixee

Flojector
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Isn't that very similar to the solution they use on New Texas Giant? At least, it's what they did back in 2013...
 
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