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Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction?

tomahawk

Strata Poster
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

2012Jarrett said:
I find Six Flags to be way worse than Cedar Fair. I found literally everything at Magic Mountain to be way overpriced ($15 for a small Sprite and a slice of **** pizza? Really? Especially when it was 7$ at Beech Bend?), I've always found the employees to be rude, and I really didn't like how they would make it seem like you need lockers for their rides, especially when I bought one for Batman taking them seriously and it didn't work so I had to buy another. I remember when we went to SFOG when I was twelve my ten-year old sister was on the verge of heatstroke and they tried to use it as an opportunity to sell us a cold bottle of water instead of trying to get her the help she needed. I remember spending 45 minutes in Riddler's station because the were too cheap to not run one train, something I find inexcusable on a B&M that runs three trains. Full Throttle itself is a fantastic ride, but I feel like it's the perfect example of their mindset. They bought it because it was cheap and easy to market and then had stuffy guys in suits in some boardroom decide to put YOLO and the like all over it because "that's what the kids these days are into!" Both YOLO and X2 felt like short, relatively cheap rides that would have marketable gimmicks trying to squeeze bang for their buck at all...

Cedar Fair I feel is better but just barely. I hate that they make you get a locker for more and more coasters and I don't think that relatively basic-looking Rougarou tumbler is worth $20. I'd much rather wait the ten seconds extra it takes for one train to stow their stuff than buy a 2$ locker.

You mention Riddler with three trains. They actually sent one train to I think whatever they renamed Iron Wolf to at SFA so they only have two trains now, and 45 minutes in the station with one train isn't that bad for that ride sadly. Stand ups are very slow loading because you have kids jump when seats lock and think its funny when they have to unlock them.

The amount you are wrong about X is astounding. The ride has had so many problems over its lifespan, the simple fact that it still stands is a testament to the parks dedication to the ride. In 08 when they did the conversion the trains alone were $5 million. The ride itself, after all costs of trains, redesigns, etc. Has reached over $100 million allegedly. It's a concept that is still too advanced for the tech they have, although barely.

Full throttle, my opinions on that have been shared so many times that it leaves me blue in the face. The coaster cost I believe $5 million or so, guess what, by building that, they were able to have TC be what it is.

Now let's go to the how all corporate chains are evil. Realize the size of parks you are talking about. First, because I'm shocked nobody has mentioned it, you have Disney. Now think harder. Guess what, most of their rides are "sponsored" by X company. Yet they have been left out of the loop of this conversation, why? Because they hide their marketing.

What may surprise some of you is running a theme park costs a lot of money. Electricity isn't free, water isn't free, and land, especially for those big parks isn't free. Comparing beech bend to any six flags is moronic in terms of marketinf, prices, etc. Bend has what, 3 coasters, sorry creds, and any given Six Flags has 10+. Compare the costs of said additions as well. Exactly. Return on mother **** investment yo.

Is the train wrap annoying and ugly as hell? Yes. Are the parks adding new attractions yearly? Yes. Remember the Shapiro years when the big addition for the chain was a water slide? They didn't properly market, got over extended, got **** hard by the recession, filed for bankruptcy, and now you see what the parks look like as a way to survive.

Don't expect a park that gets 1/10 visitors to operate the same as a park that attracts from the major cities and other countries. Guess what, Hans and his random German family are much more likely to go to a six Flags on vacation than Holiday World. Fact.

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Hyde

Matt SR
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

Darren B said:
I just don't feel like SF or CF care enough about guest experience. Holiday World & Alabama Splash are owned by people who care, and you can see that oozing out in every aspect of the experience.
And as I mentioned in the previous page, you are right. Cedar Fair and Six Flags are publicly-traded and owned companies - the owners are those holding stocks, who are looking for a return on their investment.

There has been a lot of discussion about the high in-park costs of food, merchandise, etc. Would it surprise you if in-park spending has been a specific target for Cedar Fair investors? http://ir.cedarfair.com/files/doc_finan ... elease.pdf

Comparing privately-owned and publicly-owned amusement parks is an apples to oranges comparison. Yes, it is a fact that privately-owned parks will on the whole provide greater customer satisfaction. And these owners are absolutely more in-tune with the mission of the park. There is quite frankly a different motivator with publicly-owned parks - these are seen as investments to many who own stock.
 
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

Whether they're publicly owned or not, parks like Disney and the Herschend parks show that you can rake in a fortune while still providing a great customer experience. I'm happy to pay the seventy dollar entrance fee and buy things in the park because I know I'm going to have a great day and I'm not going to be fed crap, have to buy a locker, and spend thirty dollars to park.
 

Belfast Conor

Roller Poster
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

^to be fair, parking at WDW is what, $20 per car? So still fairly high in my eyes. And the Disney food ain't exactly top notch. I'd say Disney get away with it because their product is so much better quality overall that you almost don't realise how expensive everything is because the payoff matches it. With Six Flags/CF parks, they're hardly places you take dying children for one last magical holiday. Fun, yes. Thrilling, yes. World class quality? Don't think so.


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Tomatron

Giga Poster
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

I've been to over 300 parks around the world, so when it comes to this question, I'm pretty clued up to say the least. Regardless of whether a park is publicly or privately owned, the simple fact about the Six Flags parks I've been to this summer is that they are not giving guest experience the attention it needs.

Yes, they have to make money. They're a business. But they're more likely to make money when the guests are happier. Cedar Fair do slightly better at this, at least they operate their rides efficiently. And you expect to pay a premium at Disney and Universal etc etc because of the brand and the quality that comes with it, and I've never had a bad day at any of their parks. But the Six Flags parks could do with taking a leaf out of the better independent parks like Holiday World, and the big chains who do it right, to get in to their heads what guest satisfaction actually means.

I don't actually mind paying extra for things, or a premium price for food so long as I am getting value for money. But if say, I'm paying to put my things in a locker, I expect the rides to be ran efficiently to make that money worthwhile. Six Flags do not run their rides to the level that they can be operated at. If Canada'a Wonderland can operate Leviathan with 45 second dispatches without the requirement to put your bags in a locker beforehand, then Six Flags certainly can. But they choose not to, because apparently they don't seem to understand that happy guests spend more, and that you can't spend money when you're waiting in line forever.
 

davidm

Strata Poster
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

Perhaps I'm mellowing with age, but I thought most of the "BIG CORPORATE-CHAIN PARKS*" that I visited the other week were much better (operations, food and atmosphere-wise) than my previous visits to them (exception was SeaWorld SanAntonio, which was poor).

(* thats Carowinds/SFSTL/SFOT/SFFT ; granted Carowinds has changed chains, but the 6F ones not)

I do ignore most of the parks money-grabbing activities though (apart from $20 parking charges grrrrr).
 

njn63

Mega Poster
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

Intricks said:
On the flip side, I have YET to hit a Six Flags park that doesnt require lockers for all their attractions.
SFGAm has open bins for most of the rides. I'm struggling to think of one that doesn't in that park.
gavin said:
ashtonrick said:
no matter how old you are you must show ID or no alcohol. As we had got served no probs in the bars / clubs around New York my friend who is 35 only took a colour photocopy of his passport and got refused service

That's less to do with the parks and more to do with the USA being retarded when it comes to alcohol sales. I never had a problem in New York or Las Vegas, but was constantly getting checked in California and I clearly don't look even remotely close to being underage.
The US is crazy about enforcing liquor laws. Local governments will send underage secret shoppers in to test establishments and will pull their liquor license if they are shown to serve underage clients. Add in that our drinking age is unreasonable and you have a recipe for everyone getting IDed.

I look young for my age and went to Vegas not long after my 21st birthday. You want to complain about getting your ID checked constantly? :lol:
Hyde said:
Darren B said:
Are you happy with the major chains continued efforts to penny pinch from their guests at every possibility? With the hope that the money will go into [strike]future attractions?[/strike] shareholder dividends?
Fixed your typo. :wink:

To build on gavin's post, this is beyond the amusement park industry, but simply apart of the entire publicly-traded entertainment industry.

All companies have investors. Publicly-traded companies often have even more investors. And while there are those investors who really get the mission of their company, there are often many more investors that are specifically focused on gaining a return from their investment.

For the entertainment industry, there are a number of publicly-traded companies:

- Cedar Fair
- Six Flags
- Merlin
- Blackstone Group (Seaworld and Busch Gardens)
- Carnival Cruiseline
- AMC Theaters
- Universal
- Disney

While Universal and Disney are Tier 1 theme parks in terms of guest satisfaction and efficiency of running a park, they are also apart of a broader investment portfolio, not carrying 100% weight of investor focus. That is to say, Universal and Disney do other things outside of amusement parks.

Cedar Fair, Six Flags, etc. however are not nearly as diverse - diversity can literally be measured as seasonal or year-round parks. This then means investors will emphasize profit margins and increased dividends for park operations. Regardless, park growth in terms of attendance and in-park spending are driving line items that makes investors happy... and yes, that does translate to higher costs for park goers.
This is all that needs to be said regarding how the parks are run.

Publicly traded companies are all about being just good enough to get their customers to come back. Going above and beyond to impress has a much lower ROI than being "good enough" and is considered a waste of money by investors.

Personally I think they're wrong on this because it works in the short term but does not build a legacy or a brand but Wall Street is all about 6 month plans instead of 6 year plans. The good news is it has become much easier for smaller businesses (or family run parks) to stand out because these publicly traded companies have set the bar of customer expectations so low.
 

GuyWithAStick

Captain Basic
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

SFGAm has lockers on like 2 ride's, but all rides there have bins.

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jj23w

Hyper Poster
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

Merlin need I say more, treat guests badly, treat members of staff badly and many other things.
 

Darren B

Giga Poster
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

jj23w said:
Merlin need I say more, treat guests badly, treat members of staff badly and many other things.

Don't you work for Merlin?
 

jamaredux

Roller Poster
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

I recently visited Kings Dominion and have been considering Carowinds. I noticed a lot of ticket deals that I would not expect to see from parks I'm used to (Florida parks, really), such as "everyone pays kids price" and "passholders bring a friend for $18". In fact, I got a Groupon to visit KD and got two tickets for $65, which was crazy cheap considering one BGW ticket online was like $75 (yeah yeah quality and theming yeah yeah).

The lower entry price made me more willing to stomach the stupid high food and locker pricing (though we got lunch at Burger King across the street instead of in-park), and parking costs have always just been part of going to a park for me (BGT, Universal, etc. have been charging $10+ for parking as long as I've been going). All of the rides had bins for stuff (even the water rides, which we didn't know so we bought a $13 locker...). I guess for us, psychologically, we felt like we got a great deal because of the low admission price. Apparently some here think this invites "scum", but I think that might be unfair (I mean, as far as KD goes, they had legitimate "scum" aka gang problems ~20 years ago). Control that element through security, not pricing people out of the park.

I guess I just don't see much difference over time. I hadn't been to a park in a few years and it seemed exactly the way I expected it to be (well, except that $13 all day locker versus a $1 one-time-use locker).
 

Darren B

Giga Poster
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

The thing is, lowering prices attracts scum, and that's a fact.

Whilst I was talking to Pat Koch this past week she told me about the issues that Alabama Adventure suffered through by participating in 'cheap days'. Fights, guns, knives and gangs; all leading to the Police shutting down the park during the event. She made it very clear that under Dan's ownership that cheap days will NEVER happen, and I applaud them for that.

SF and CF are dangerously close to this happening to them and for that reason I'm more than happy to pay full price on a day that normal, well mannered guests seem to attend. Yes, there's always exceptions, but in the whole the atmosphere of the park is much better during a regular park day.
 

GuyWithAStick

Captain Basic
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

^Magic Mountain already had a few gang related incidents. A serious shooting happened in '96, or something.

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gavin

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

^^ There's a reason I flat out refused to ever go to the cinema on "Orange Wednesdays". It's the same principal, but scaled up.
 

Nemesis Inferno

Strata Poster
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

gavin said:
^^ There's a reason I flat out refused to ever go to the cinema on "Orange Wednesdays". It's the same principal, but scaled up.

That would always depend on what film, what cinema, and what time you'd see a film though...

I suppose now though with it being on a Tuesday as well it spreads the **** out, and most of them can't afford insurance either, win win...
 

Jordanovichy

Credit Whore 2016
Re: Are the major chains greed destroying guest satisfaction

^£2 insurance policy for Scotland the other week has given me 2 for 1 every Tuesday and Wednesday for a year. Worth it ;)
 
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