Alton Towers | Farmyard Retheme to "CBeebies Land"
- Thread starter furie
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SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Hahaha, what has become of you. </3 Bloody children.
What's an IP? (In themepark terms..)
I don't see anything wrong with this. CBeebies is so well known in the UK it's bound to draw more people in that a generic farm-yard. They can easily update shows with new trends, popular shows, like a modular area.
If only they could put in a Playdays themed bus. And a character dressed up as Why-Bird to scare the crap out of everyone
Screw it, i'm going to open up a theme park based on really really good 80's early 90's kids tv shows, might even get Pat Sharp to man the admissions booth.
I don't see anything wrong with this. CBeebies is so well known in the UK it's bound to draw more people in that a generic farm-yard. They can easily update shows with new trends, popular shows, like a modular area.
If only they could put in a Playdays themed bus. And a character dressed up as Why-Bird to scare the crap out of everyone
Screw it, i'm going to open up a theme park based on really really good 80's early 90's kids tv shows, might even get Pat Sharp to man the admissions booth.Alton Towers | Farmyard Retheme to "CBeebies Land"
It's not for our age group at all and tbh I have no idea what's even on that channel. It's not an area I will even look at.
Ip tie ins are everywhere now, it's worked well for Oakwood. But I do wish Merlin would use their creative team and make something original. The problem with that is kids might not get it where a tie in like this is easy and if done well it will work.
I can see both sides and agree with joey and slayed.
I had never been in that area until the other year when we went with Furie, the farm was fun.
What I would like to know is how the bbc are doing this as there was a lot of problems when they were going to charge for iplayer on the Xbox etc.
We pay for the bbc and I do hope the bbc are not actually paying anything towards this project and Merlin are fully funding it.
It's not for our age group at all and tbh I have no idea what's even on that channel. It's not an area I will even look at.
Ip tie ins are everywhere now, it's worked well for Oakwood. But I do wish Merlin would use their creative team and make something original. The problem with that is kids might not get it where a tie in like this is easy and if done well it will work.
I can see both sides and agree with joey and slayed.
I had never been in that area until the other year when we went with Furie, the farm was fun.
What I would like to know is how the bbc are doing this as there was a lot of problems when they were going to charge for iplayer on the Xbox etc.
We pay for the bbc and I do hope the bbc are not actually paying anything towards this project and Merlin are fully funding it.
At the end of every PR there's usually a paragraph or two about the companies involved. I never copy them in here because it's just glorified showboating, but it did say that the BBC made a £156m profit last year. I don't think that's relevant for this tie-in but the BBC are certainly making money. I suppose all TV License fee payers will be entitled to a free visit to Cbeebies Land next year
As gavin alluded to, parks pay the other company for the IP license for a contracted number of years. In some rare cases, a brand (possibly Jo or Russell) will approach a park to help establish themselves but the's there's no chance of that happening with the BBC. I wonder how much Merlin paid. We'll probably never know.
As gavin alluded to, parks pay the other company for the IP license for a contracted number of years. In some rare cases, a brand (possibly Jo or Russell) will approach a park to help establish themselves but the's there's no chance of that happening with the BBC. I wonder how much Merlin paid. We'll probably never know.
Robbie
Hyper Poster
Re: Alton Towers | Farmyard Retheme to
You still have to pay for DVDs of shows the BBC have broadcast, and you still have to buy Iggle Piggle pyjamas from the shops as - funnily enough - they won't let you just walk out with them. BBC Worldwide license stuff all the time, and the public pays to buy the products or visit those attractions. In fact, it is part of BBC Worldwide's remit to make as much money as possible to supplement the licence fee (which doesn't bring in enough money to pay for the BBC's activities).
BBC Worldwide already own at least one attraction of their own - the Doctor Who Experience in Cardiff, which they have built and operate with their own money and then charge an entrance fee. And it's doing quite well!
That said, in the case of CBeebies Land it is most likely that Alton have paid BBC Worldwide for the license, and BBCWW will simply be saying "yes" or "no" to whatever Alton come up with.
I suppose we could end up with this:
Well, this will be BBC Worldwide rather than the BBC, and BBC Worldwide charge us again and again for loads of stuff!marc said:
You still have to pay for DVDs of shows the BBC have broadcast, and you still have to buy Iggle Piggle pyjamas from the shops as - funnily enough - they won't let you just walk out with them. BBC Worldwide license stuff all the time, and the public pays to buy the products or visit those attractions. In fact, it is part of BBC Worldwide's remit to make as much money as possible to supplement the licence fee (which doesn't bring in enough money to pay for the BBC's activities).
BBC Worldwide already own at least one attraction of their own - the Doctor Who Experience in Cardiff, which they have built and operate with their own money and then charge an entrance fee. And it's doing quite well!
That said, in the case of CBeebies Land it is most likely that Alton have paid BBC Worldwide for the license, and BBCWW will simply be saying "yes" or "no" to whatever Alton come up with.
I suppose we could end up with this:
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Parks definitely pay for the use of IPs. That's my biggest issue. That's budget for making stuff awesome blown away.
You'd think logically neither side would pay because it's advertising, but no... They pay for the right to use it. So parks must be convinced (and probably rightly so) that a brand is going to be massively beneficial.
I think most of the time it is, I'm pretty sure Saw is Thorpe's most preferred roller coaster, and not certain it would be if you removed the recognisable brand. It's less about people caring for that brand and more about familiarity and understanding.
It's all very short term profit searching, which is a shame. At least Saw can be stripped of it's brand with little to no impact on the ride experience.
Granted none of this effects ME... And I really don't care personally. I haven't even been over to the farm for years. But it's kinda about the wider issue.
Charlie, Ice Age, Sonic... None of these fit the Alton brand. They've actually hammered the Alton brand to fit their strange selection of incoherent themes. And that's what I, as a fan, care about. And I care about whether or not it's actually beneficial and it's impact on the park in general from a critical perspective, it's irrelevant that it's not "aimed at me" - (though one of the press releases clearly says "children AND ADULTS" WTF?) - it's still open to discussion. It's not like I can't comment on something unless it was created for me. I see this BS thrown around even in coaster topics "enthusiasts aren't the target audience" UGH WE'D NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO TALK ABOUT EVER.
You'd think logically neither side would pay because it's advertising, but no... They pay for the right to use it. So parks must be convinced (and probably rightly so) that a brand is going to be massively beneficial.
I think most of the time it is, I'm pretty sure Saw is Thorpe's most preferred roller coaster, and not certain it would be if you removed the recognisable brand. It's less about people caring for that brand and more about familiarity and understanding.
It's all very short term profit searching, which is a shame. At least Saw can be stripped of it's brand with little to no impact on the ride experience.
Granted none of this effects ME... And I really don't care personally. I haven't even been over to the farm for years. But it's kinda about the wider issue.
Charlie, Ice Age, Sonic... None of these fit the Alton brand. They've actually hammered the Alton brand to fit their strange selection of incoherent themes. And that's what I, as a fan, care about. And I care about whether or not it's actually beneficial and it's impact on the park in general from a critical perspective, it's irrelevant that it's not "aimed at me" - (though one of the press releases clearly says "children AND ADULTS" WTF?) - it's still open to discussion. It's not like I can't comment on something unless it was created for me. I see this BS thrown around even in coaster topics "enthusiasts aren't the target audience" UGH WE'D NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO TALK ABOUT EVER.
I agree with Joey fundamentally. I've taken a child from birth to eight years old regularly to Alton and he's always loved the "Alton's own" entertainment. He loves the pirates and pirate shows. He loved the Cloud Cuckoo Land theatre. He will sit and listen to the shark telling tales outside the Sealife and he adores everything (shows, storytelling, meet and greet) to do with the four Halloween characters they have.
The farmyard is also a superb little attraction area. I spent a lot of time in that area for years. Joey is wrong though.
None of it is entertaining for adults. However, at least you can appreciate that "they're doing it themselves". The problem is, the shows, meets and the whole Farmyard area are completely missed. The rest of the park may have 2 hour queues and the main ride areas screaming kids as far as the eye can see, but the pirate show and Farmyard have a handful of people (and the pirate show only gets an audience because it's the only covered eating area you can get into without having to buy food).
Parents at Alton are simply not interested in what there is for their kids to do. Or the majority aren't. They go to Alton for the adults to be entertained, because [suspected/implied] costs of the park visit are so high.
Even if they don't pay it (and we know they don't), a family of four will look at the day as £40 each entrance, £20 each on food/drink all day, £20 on ride photos, £40 of tat. For that cost, you bet your life Mum and Dad want to ride at least four huge rollercoasters. They may allow the kids on to some things as they pass them if they look fun for the adults too (Flume, Rapids, RMT) - but the expensive day, paid by M&D is all about getting value, and that means big rides for big people.
They look and see that the implied cost of the day is over £200, so they don't want to spend ANY of it sitting in a boat looking at ducks.
And this is where IP works. A well known "brand" implies professional, expensive and "value for money". You can take an hour out of the adult day for little Jonny to spend in CBeebies Land, because when he goes to Nursery on Monday, he can tell everyone about it. It earns kudos points to the heady and competitive world of local parenting.
Maxi-Minor_Furie adored Lightwater Valley. He loved the rides, the atmosphere and the whole day. He spent about half an hour in Angry Birds Land (he wasn't going to bother, but we knew he'd be miffed if he had missed it - he didn't think it was as good as the rest of the park).
The point is, to get him excited about visiting the park, Angry Birds was the key. Even though he largely ignored it, it was still the pull. I'll bet now he can't remember the name of the park, but he can remember Angry Birds Land, which had The Ultimate :lol:
Obviously it's great for the park. You turn a dead section of park into a massively visited one. It is "lazy", but it's also obvious. There's no way that any team could have come up with anything original which could have revitalised that area of the park for under fives which would have been popular. It's simply not possible to get kids to drag their parents there if it's an "unknown".
Alton have already revitalised the dead Cloud Cuckoo Land area, first with Charlie, followed by Ice Age 3d (the toadstool move was genius). Its another area of the park I used to spend a huge amount of time in because it was empty so re-ride after re-ride on Frog Hopper and Carousel). Now, there's usually at least a one cycle queue for everything, which considering previously you were the only ones on the ride, it's a big difference.
So I do agree with Joey a lot (especially in a park like Chessington where it's all quite kid oriented anyway), but Alton is a very different beast and IP was the only realistic way to do anything with a dead corner of the park.
The farmyard is also a superb little attraction area. I spent a lot of time in that area for years. Joey is wrong though.
None of it is entertaining for adults. However, at least you can appreciate that "they're doing it themselves". The problem is, the shows, meets and the whole Farmyard area are completely missed. The rest of the park may have 2 hour queues and the main ride areas screaming kids as far as the eye can see, but the pirate show and Farmyard have a handful of people (and the pirate show only gets an audience because it's the only covered eating area you can get into without having to buy food).
Parents at Alton are simply not interested in what there is for their kids to do. Or the majority aren't. They go to Alton for the adults to be entertained, because [suspected/implied] costs of the park visit are so high.
Even if they don't pay it (and we know they don't), a family of four will look at the day as £40 each entrance, £20 each on food/drink all day, £20 on ride photos, £40 of tat. For that cost, you bet your life Mum and Dad want to ride at least four huge rollercoasters. They may allow the kids on to some things as they pass them if they look fun for the adults too (Flume, Rapids, RMT) - but the expensive day, paid by M&D is all about getting value, and that means big rides for big people.
They look and see that the implied cost of the day is over £200, so they don't want to spend ANY of it sitting in a boat looking at ducks.
And this is where IP works. A well known "brand" implies professional, expensive and "value for money". You can take an hour out of the adult day for little Jonny to spend in CBeebies Land, because when he goes to Nursery on Monday, he can tell everyone about it. It earns kudos points to the heady and competitive world of local parenting.
Maxi-Minor_Furie adored Lightwater Valley. He loved the rides, the atmosphere and the whole day. He spent about half an hour in Angry Birds Land (he wasn't going to bother, but we knew he'd be miffed if he had missed it - he didn't think it was as good as the rest of the park).
The point is, to get him excited about visiting the park, Angry Birds was the key. Even though he largely ignored it, it was still the pull. I'll bet now he can't remember the name of the park, but he can remember Angry Birds Land, which had The Ultimate :lol:
Obviously it's great for the park. You turn a dead section of park into a massively visited one. It is "lazy", but it's also obvious. There's no way that any team could have come up with anything original which could have revitalised that area of the park for under fives which would have been popular. It's simply not possible to get kids to drag their parents there if it's an "unknown".
Alton have already revitalised the dead Cloud Cuckoo Land area, first with Charlie, followed by Ice Age 3d (the toadstool move was genius). Its another area of the park I used to spend a huge amount of time in because it was empty so re-ride after re-ride on Frog Hopper and Carousel). Now, there's usually at least a one cycle queue for everything, which considering previously you were the only ones on the ride, it's a big difference.
So I do agree with Joey a lot (especially in a park like Chessington where it's all quite kid oriented anyway), but Alton is a very different beast and IP was the only realistic way to do anything with a dead corner of the park.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Didn't say it was - I said it should be. It's kinda a different, yet related, issue. Sorry, I didn't explain... Slayed was arguing on Twitter that I'm not "the target audience" and so I'm not being objective about my dismissal of the retheme as boring. I argued that "well, why aren't I?" basically, as well as stating that, I know, being objective and being a fan are very different things.
Because essentially what that implies is that IP usage is okay if it's targeting an audience, even if it's terrible. It's like saying that Saw being crap is okay because I'm not a horror movie fan. (Not that I'm saying Saw is crap, even though it is, but you get the point.) It makes no sense.
My point re: entertaining for adults is that a quality piece of work aimed at young children SHOULD be capable of entertaining their parents, at the very least, on some level. It's kinda pointless targeting something so specifically at very young children, imho. I can recall my dad reading Sonic the Comic with me and finding things hilarious that I didn't get at the time, but looking back over it now it's like "ahaha, I get it now..." And plenty of older kids, even teens, read that comic. But I still found it awesome. Okay, you could argue this is IP related and contradicting my point a little. But plenty of original kids books, TV shows, movies, etc. demonstrate this phenomenon. The issue is that entertaining adults in a FUN way, as in, not scaring them ****, at a theme park is difficult and rarely demonstrated in any quality outside of the big players. But Tussauds were perfectly capable of it. And I think Merlin still would be with a little redirection. Everything they do now is either horror, a Disney ripoff OR an IP, or a combination of these. And when they do try to be original, they miss huge glaring points. Look at Wild Asia's blandness, or it's 1.2m height restriction for it's major attraction, and question what about that is "family".
But, ****, the rest of your post I hadn't considered, because I don't experience that, and it's a pretty powerful point. But it does go back to the whole marketability vs longevity issue. What you imply though is that something like this widen's Alton's audience perception, and will in turn mean more people, drawn by CBeeBies, will be watching the pirate show?
Joey said:
I'll handle this in a chunk and again, I agree with you in principle :lol:
I watch TV with MMF, play games for his age range and read books with him. It's important as a parent that I'm engaged in it as well as he is. I think that's why some shows like Peppa Pig are huge, and others fall away quickly. Peppa Pig is actually a good show.
The thing is, when MMF isn't around, I don't engage in those things. I (generally) do adult things. Not all the time and "adult" is too vague a phrase to use - I guess "not aimed at kids under 10" would be better :lol:
Studio Ghibli and Disney are probably two things which buck this trend - both know how to do a complete age audience. I'd like to say others do too, but if I went to the cinema and had a choice of "dirty horror" or "New from the creators of Shrek", I'd be up to my eyeballs in blood that day
I've certainly watched stuff like Shrek on my own, or with adults, but I wouldn't pick it over a "grown up" offering. I hope that makes sense? I think it's probably very subjective.
So.... the point :lol:
Adults are willing to share their time and attention with their kids if they can see the reward, but not undivided time and attention if there's something grown up that could be happening too.
Bubbleworks is the perfect example of how it works at some parks in the kid's favour. As a grown up, you go on Vampire and it's a bit "meh". The whole park is full of "meh" as far as most adult visitors are concerned. Chessington is a slow, rainy Sunday afternoon with your kids and a slight hangover. You don't really have anything else to do, and you're in that situation where you're essentially trapped in the kid's world. So, when you find a Bubbleworks, you enjoy it. It's not bloody Barney the Dinosaur, it's not Ben 25 (with nagging for the toys), it's not playing Café with the dolls for the fifth consecutive hour. It's a breath of fresh air and exactly what you're talking about Joey, entertaining for both adult and child (in a way Tiny Trucks is never going to be). As a captive of that child's world, you can enjoy it.
Now imagine Alton is more like a wedding party on a Saturday Night. We all know that the adults sit and chat and drink for hours while the kids are left to entertain themselves, or just sit and be bored. They're ignored. No matter how good "The three little wolves and the big bad pig" is at bedtime on a Tuesday night, it's not coming out at that wedding party... Some of the kids may have Top Trumps or make up chasing games to pass the time, but generally, the kids are bored. In this instance, CBeebies Land is like a bouncy castle or a free arcade room. Yeah, it's for kids, but some adults will join them there for a little bit because they can also have a bit of fun. It's different because they can join in. Then they get bored and wander off, drinks and bitching about how fat the bride looked are more important.
Adults are incredibly selfish when given "adult things" to do. Even when we take kids to Chessington or Peppa Pig World (which is absolutely for the kids), we'll still seek out the things we like and pull the kids away from what they like. We have **** attention spans and get bored rapidly by repetition, kids love to repeat things and to find their favourite thing and keep going back to it.
Joey said:
I don't know if I agree about longevity or not. The problem is that Thomas and Peppa say no... The IPs are still massive today, several years after you'd say they'd peaked. I think Drayton is off with Cartoon Network, as their IPs move rapidly and the attention of their audience is quite narrow - but the other two I think not.
Let's face it, they're talking about Postman **** Pat here - he was around when I was a child FFS. If that isn't longevity, I don't know what is :lol: You are in danger though in five or ten years time finding yourself with people going Who Pig? However, Paultons have already paid off the investment multiple times over (and I'll bet Drayton have too) - so as long as that money is invested wisely, you can write off the IP when it starts to look bad. I don't think parks do, but they could :lol:
Finally, no. I don't think for a second it will impact stuff like the pirate show positively. By the time most adults have "done their bit" and spent an hour with Little Susan and the Numberjacks, they'll be off to find the big rides and somewhere to dump the kids to watch while mummy and daddy do their stuff. It'll be business as usual then.
I have to point out I'm painting a pretty bleak picture of parents here. No all parents are like that, but I think that if you look hard, you'll find a huge number are. I'm certainly guilty of it myself, though at theme parks it tends to be very different because I get something different from a park than most people.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Lets not forget Postman Pat was irrelevant for most of the 90's and 00's and has only recently made a comeback.
Otherwise, yeaaaah, you're probably right.
Though, I'm not implying adults would choose to do those things alone, what I'm implying is that adults make decisions about what their children have access to. It's not just about what kids actually like when uninhibited, it's about the parent's perception of quality and appropriateness. Because the kids will enjoy themselves equally between a quality experience and a non quality one, it becomes important to impress mum and dad.
No?
I led a pretty uninhibited childhood, but I can still remember my parents making decisions about the kind of programming to record for me. Not in a censoring way, in a "what will be of higher quality" way.
Re: Alton Towers | Farmyard Retheme to "CBeebies Land"
Let's face it you cannot give kids an area themed to horror or stories like smiler so Merlin had no choice but to go with an ip.
Their last attempt at an original idea, Wild Asia, is falling apart and it never turned out that well anyway. It lacked the finishing touches that should have been there.
Swarm an original idea has also failed in terms of the public.
This is a safe option and people with kids seem to be happy, people at work cannot wait to take their kids there for this area.
We might not agree with it but as said it's not for us just like peppa pig etc is not. Even at Thomas Land we can only really ride the train.
It is what it is.
Let's face it you cannot give kids an area themed to horror or stories like smiler so Merlin had no choice but to go with an ip.
Their last attempt at an original idea, Wild Asia, is falling apart and it never turned out that well anyway. It lacked the finishing touches that should have been there.
Swarm an original idea has also failed in terms of the public.
This is a safe option and people with kids seem to be happy, people at work cannot wait to take their kids there for this area.
We might not agree with it but as said it's not for us just like peppa pig etc is not. Even at Thomas Land we can only really ride the train.
It is what it is.
Re: Alton Towers | Farmyard Retheme
Going WAY back here - this is why I won't take Isabelle to Alton yet - it costs me £40+ in fuel alone, approx 5hrs driving time (there and back) along with entrance fees - I refuse to travel all that way and pay all that money to get what I feel would be a limited return on value for the day.
I hear you're saying you had a full day out - but its a lot of time and money to waste if it isn't for me so I can't really take that risk.
I went to Lightwater Valley with Isabelle when she was 2 and other than a couple of roundabout rides and that small kids area near Pub in the Wood there was literally NOTHING for kids, not even any play parks? They have since constructed the IP of the Angry Birds activity park which would make me want to return as I feel just with this addition, as a family, I'd get a lot more value than I did last year.
Did it need to be Angry Birds? No. Would I have rather they spent money on several adventure parks dotted around the park of similar quality? Without a doubt - it wouldn't limit us to one place in the park for the majority of the time for kids.
I think with IP's (can I just say thanks to Ed for asking that question by the way as I wasn't sure either!) it makes it a lot easier to market and get families to the park in the first place.
A TV Advert showing LIGHTWATER VALLEY HAS INVESTED X AMOUNT OF MONEY IN AN ARRAY OF FANTASTIC ADVENTURE PARKS FOR 2013 compared to a TV Advert showing that the WORLDS NUMBER 1 APP ANGRY BIRDS HAS LANDED AT LIGHTWATER VALLEY FOR 2013 WITH THE NEW ANGRY BIRDS ACTIVITY PARK. I know which one Isabelle will ask me to go to.
I totally agree, they'd have the same amount of fun once they were there whether it was Angry Birds/Cbeebies/Peppa Pig or just a general amount of fun. It's a lazy marketers dream. The money they've spent on the IP can be significantly reduced in the marketing cost for the new product. The marketing cost to try and flog a general activity park would be insane - you'd need to pump so much into it to make people want to come?
On the whole, I think this is a good investment as I think people with families generally think of big rides - if they're under the impression there's this whole new CBEEBIES LAND it might make families actually thinking of attending with smaller children.
furie said:I first discovered it years ago when Minor_Furie was about 5. I wanted to go to Alton as it's a "special place" to take a young kid, but wasn't sure how kid friendly it actually was.
I was still doing my once or twice a year trips there though and didn't mind missing out on a "grown up trip" to find stuff for MF to do.
I was surprised how full and decent a day we had. We spent ages in the farmyard (ages and ages in Berry Bish Bash) and on Squirrel Nutty. Beastie was still there, the area which is now Cloud Cuckoo Land had loads of things, the stupid Toyland Tours was fun (for mostly the wrong reasons) and then staples like the Rapids, teacups, etc. This was well before the DIC splurge in the 00's on family stuff too.
So when we got annual passes, it because a no brainer to spend a lot of time at these places. So what if on this visit you miss Nemesis, but get to see bunnies and the delight of a knee-biter instead. Next time you can ride the rides.
What we found though was that we were in a minority (and we've found it at Drayton too). The general attitude is "we've paid over £100 to come in, travelled 200 miles and we're going on the big rides. We haven't done all of that so you can little brats can play on some swings - we could have stayed at home and gone to the park for that!". I think it's a fair point to a degree too. It's a once a year event and the majority of the "value" is in the adult rides.
So you end up with areas like the farmyard empty on the busiest of days, and the entrances to the larger rides surrounded by sulking kids having a miserable time waiting hours for their parents to go on the big stuff.
Or, in the kid's areas, sulking mums shouting at their kids because they've come to Alton Towers and got lumbered with the brats while the men-folk run off and enjoy themselves :lol:
I'm not sure if there's a point to all of this though. As Cloud Cuckoo Land has shown, a re-theme and IP CAN improve popularity (and you have the mushroom as a visual gateway that attracts attention) of a much ignored area.
However, the area is still nowhere near as popular as the areas of the park with "adult" rides. The problem is the size of Alton and the way it has almost distinct "here there be brats" and "here there be thrills" areas. So if I want to go on Nemesis, there's nothing for an under 5 to do within a 15 minute walk of it. Likewise, the farmyard is a ten minute meander from the nearest thrill So you either split up and have half the party miserable or stay together and have half the party miserable.
I honestly don't see a re-theme of the tired old area really changing that, but it may be that a few extra people get a little more out of it.
For those of us with young kids and a love of theme parks wanting to indoctrinate them? It's great
Going WAY back here - this is why I won't take Isabelle to Alton yet - it costs me £40+ in fuel alone, approx 5hrs driving time (there and back) along with entrance fees - I refuse to travel all that way and pay all that money to get what I feel would be a limited return on value for the day.
I hear you're saying you had a full day out - but its a lot of time and money to waste if it isn't for me so I can't really take that risk.
I went to Lightwater Valley with Isabelle when she was 2 and other than a couple of roundabout rides and that small kids area near Pub in the Wood there was literally NOTHING for kids, not even any play parks? They have since constructed the IP of the Angry Birds activity park which would make me want to return as I feel just with this addition, as a family, I'd get a lot more value than I did last year.
Did it need to be Angry Birds? No. Would I have rather they spent money on several adventure parks dotted around the park of similar quality? Without a doubt - it wouldn't limit us to one place in the park for the majority of the time for kids.
I think with IP's (can I just say thanks to Ed for asking that question by the way as I wasn't sure either!) it makes it a lot easier to market and get families to the park in the first place.
A TV Advert showing LIGHTWATER VALLEY HAS INVESTED X AMOUNT OF MONEY IN AN ARRAY OF FANTASTIC ADVENTURE PARKS FOR 2013 compared to a TV Advert showing that the WORLDS NUMBER 1 APP ANGRY BIRDS HAS LANDED AT LIGHTWATER VALLEY FOR 2013 WITH THE NEW ANGRY BIRDS ACTIVITY PARK. I know which one Isabelle will ask me to go to.
I totally agree, they'd have the same amount of fun once they were there whether it was Angry Birds/Cbeebies/Peppa Pig or just a general amount of fun. It's a lazy marketers dream. The money they've spent on the IP can be significantly reduced in the marketing cost for the new product. The marketing cost to try and flog a general activity park would be insane - you'd need to pump so much into it to make people want to come?
On the whole, I think this is a good investment as I think people with families generally think of big rides - if they're under the impression there's this whole new CBEEBIES LAND it might make families actually thinking of attending with smaller children.
You're absolutely right. We took MMF to LWV when he was two and although he had a great day, it wasn't £40 of fuel and £60 of tickets great. He'd have had just as good a time at the town park.
However, we went for me and MF to meet up with CF more than as a family day out as such... We'd have never done it otherwise unless it was tied in to a holiday in the area.
That's why Alton works/worked for us. Free entry with the MAP and only a fiver in petrol. I don't understand people who travel halfway across the country with such young kids in tow... Well, I do, it's for the adults
However, we went for me and MF to meet up with CF more than as a family day out as such... We'd have never done it otherwise unless it was tied in to a holiday in the area.
That's why Alton works/worked for us. Free entry with the MAP and only a fiver in petrol. I don't understand people who travel halfway across the country with such young kids in tow... Well, I do, it's for the adults
spicy
Giga Poster
Speaking mainly about the families being split up issue-
Some great points have been raised in this topic, seeing as I don't have any kids, its something i've never experienced or really even given any thought about but I guess as soon as I do have kids, I will experience exactly the same thing.
Which brings me to the point of this post- Have you ever wrote to the parks about it? Particularly the lack of adventure parks or anything for the kids to do nearer the larger rides to have more of a family day out? I mean some of the posts in here are a market researchers dream.
Its almost like the people in charge of designing these places don't have any kids, so like me have never experienced it or they simply don't visit places like Alton etc with their kids- both I find pretty hard to believe.
Alton must know about the; as Furie put it -"here there be brats" and "here there be thrills" areas :lol: Surely integrating these areas a little to offer a better family day out must be in Altons- and all family parks best interests?
As a side note- also seems strange to me that they have gone for CBeebies when they were rumored to be going for the Shrek IP a while ago. They both appeal to completely different age demographics. I would say Shrek appeals to almost everyone (that likes Shrek) as the films were incredibly popular with all ages, if done well it would have really attracted a lot of people to that area of the park. CBeebies only appeals to a very young age group and I bet we still see that area pretty empty.
I'm guessing the main reason here was the budget. Shrek IP wasn't going to be cheap at all.
Some great points have been raised in this topic, seeing as I don't have any kids, its something i've never experienced or really even given any thought about but I guess as soon as I do have kids, I will experience exactly the same thing.
Which brings me to the point of this post- Have you ever wrote to the parks about it? Particularly the lack of adventure parks or anything for the kids to do nearer the larger rides to have more of a family day out? I mean some of the posts in here are a market researchers dream.
Its almost like the people in charge of designing these places don't have any kids, so like me have never experienced it or they simply don't visit places like Alton etc with their kids- both I find pretty hard to believe.
Alton must know about the; as Furie put it -"here there be brats" and "here there be thrills" areas :lol: Surely integrating these areas a little to offer a better family day out must be in Altons- and all family parks best interests?
As a side note- also seems strange to me that they have gone for CBeebies when they were rumored to be going for the Shrek IP a while ago. They both appeal to completely different age demographics. I would say Shrek appeals to almost everyone (that likes Shrek) as the films were incredibly popular with all ages, if done well it would have really attracted a lot of people to that area of the park. CBeebies only appeals to a very young age group and I bet we still see that area pretty empty.
I'm guessing the main reason here was the budget. Shrek IP wasn't going to be cheap at all.
spicy said:
I have in feedback forms, yes. I've also done so vocally on Towers Times which is regularly read by Merlin/Towers staff.
I also applied for the public forum thing they offered for just that, to give feedback. They gave it to a bunch of mid-twenties from forums like TT. That was obviously what they wanted, and knowing them all, they were solid, reliable and intelligent people to pick so not a poor choice at all. It's just they only wanted the feedback they wanted. They wanted to know what people might think about 13, not what people actually thought. It was "we're doing this, so need feedback from the demographic we're dealing with". Most businesses don't want feedback that doesn't suit their current marketing or targets - they just class it as people moaning.
Though they made "The Dung Heap" which was a play park, and it was a complete failure. I suspect that (because obviously somebody owned that idea) the reason given was "visitors don't want play parks" as to why it failed. In reality, it failed because it was in the arse end of the arse end of the park. It was so out of the way, nobody was ever going to find it plus... Adults don't take their kids to the kids areas, because they're so out of the way and eat into adult ride time.
I've always said that if there was play equipment under the Air turnaround (that huge expanse of flat concrete between shop and entrance) and where Ug Swinger used to be, Alton would double how family friendly it is overnight. Another on the lawn at the entrance to X-Sector? Superb. It would make the lives of parents so much easier, keep families together for the whole day and just generally radically improve things. Alton doesn't lack things for families to do, it lacks them in areas close to where the parents WANT to be.