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Accident on Splash Canyon

Jarrett

Most Obnoxious Member 2016
^What I don't mean is that the odds of an injury are increased drastically because in reality they aren't. But even minor things, such as line jumping and loose articles and just bad behavior in general. You simply shouldn't leave them unattended. This is an extreme example obviously but it goes beyond safety. This is about the proper way to behave at a park where you are a guest.
 

Smithy

Strata Poster
Right.

My first response upon hearing it was "Yeah, bet they were ****ing about".

Then I thought about it, about any 11 year olds or that age range in my family, and I could fully see them messing about amongst friends.

But then I saw the picture of the poor lass this morning. 11 years old ffs. And I thought about my own experience on a rapids ride. Particularly on one that isn't a full boat. And I've frequently leant forward, got up on my feet to avoid a big soaking, or to avoid sitting in a puddle. A jerk or a bump at the wrong time could just as easily throw me about.

So yeah. I don't blame nor feel the need to criticise the girl, or even go as far as to suggest it was her fault. It wasn't her fault. It was just a tragic, unfortunate circumstance of events.
 

tribar

Mega Poster
I think the solution is to punish those who feel that the rules don't apply to them. Make it clear that the ride may kill you if you don't follow the park's rules. If park-goers still don't think the rules apply to them then they should be ejected and banned from the park and face criminal charges regardless of age. It's time for people to start accepting responsibility for their actions and to stop blaming others. I bet fear of death or prosecution will make most people think twice.
 

Jarrett

Most Obnoxious Member 2016
I think the solution is to punish those who feel that the rules don't apply to them. Make it clear that the ride may kill you if you don't follow the park's rules. If park-goers still don't think the rules apply to them then they should be ejected and banned from the park and face criminal charges regardless of age. It's time for people to start accepting responsibility for their actions and to stop blaming others. I bet fear of death or prosecution will make most people think twice.
My point exactly.

The school can punish kids for misbehaving, the park can punish the school for not properly watching their children, and the government can punish anyone responsible for children who misbehave and compromise safety.

Like I said in my final bullet point, Ohio has something called Rider Responsibility Law in the Ohio Revised Code. What it states is that failing to obey the safety procedures for a ride is illegal and the park can charge you for it. Be it a manufacturer regulation in the handbook, a corporate chain-wide park policy, in-the-moment judgement call by a ride supervisor, local government regulations, Jesus said so, if it's a rule put in place by someone authorized to make that rule, you have to follow it, and failure to do so is a crime and the park can press a charge for it. I know people who used to work in KI security that said that while the usual M.O. was just to trespass someone for breaking a rule, they had certainly pressed the charge in extreme situations and had people arrested for it. Mystic Timbers has a sign in the station that clearly cites the ORC when making the rule clear. There needs to be way more awareness for this law and every state needs something like it. But most importantly, it needs to be expanded to apply to the guardians of minors if it doesn't already. Drayton Manor should have been able to press charges against the idiot that decided to turn a bunch of 11-year olds loose in an amusement park to raise hell without adult supervision. You took your little heathens to the park and they get themselves or someone else hurt? It's your responsibility.

Actually after the Harambe thing last summer there were people calling for laws that would have punished that kid's mom for what happened. She couldn't watch her kid, an endangered animal was killed because she was being careless, you can't just get away with that I'm sorry. This is the same thing.
 

Smithy

Strata Poster
Precisely Poke.

The attention seeking grief-hawker bint who was on the news (and also in the BBC article linked previously) has also just been on the national news saying the ride was a danger, and if they'd acted upon her concerns when her son 'fell in' then this never would have happened. Basically said "kids will be kids", and then they followed it up with video footage of some chavs standing up on the ride filmed previously, before finally listing the requirements and safety briefings which clearly state remain seated and hold on tight.

That this isn't a frequent occurence, that this isn't happening regularly around the world, shows that it isn't a fault that lies with the ride type, it isn't a fault with the safety instructions; I'd be willing to bet a fair chunk of money that at least 20% of the people who ride rapids on a day to day basis do exactly as this poor girl did.

I agree that people seeking to find blame, to fault the park and say they should be doing more because "kids will be kids". They're the idiots who need to take responsibility. They're also the same Brexit-voting buffoons who moan about how we've become too pc.

Merlin closing their rapids is a weird one, fairly sure it's more a PR thing than a genuine safety thing.
 

Jarrett

Most Obnoxious Member 2016
The attention seeking grief-hawker bint who was on the news (and also in the BBC article linked previously) has also just been on the national news saying the ride was a danger, and if they'd acted upon her concerns when her son 'fell in' then this never would have happened. Basically said "kids will be kids", and then they followed it up with video footage of some chavs standing up on the ride filmed previously, before finally listing the requirements and safety briefings which clearly state remain seated and hold on tight.
Yeah this does nothing for the situation. Like you said, this is only the first time it's happened, millions have ridden European-style beltless rapids before and I'm sure millions have stood up on them before. There was a negligible chance this would happen but it happened anyway. However, you have to remember there are things you can do at a park that are way more likely to hurt someone. If it wasn't this it would have been a kid with a phone flying out of their hand and striking someone, a basketball striking someone on a coaster, the idiot who ran on Skyrush's platform during our Hershey trip last year and got the ride E-stopped for forty minutes could have hurt himself, a kid going in after his hat with a multi-ton ride vehicle charging right at him, tons of examples. Now adults do stupid things too (going in after your hat or wallet after losing it on a B&M invert, dad taking his phone out on the ride, some dude's girlfriend showing off her little lanyard trick during Stark Raven Mad), but they should be held accountable for their actions. Likewise, the parents of these children should be responsible for the actions of their children. Their job should either be to supervise them on the ride, properly teach them amusement ride safety, or just take them to Chucky Cheese's if that's too big a responsibility to have them around powerful equipment like that.

That this isn't a frequent occurence, that this isn't happening regularly around the world, shows that it isn't a fault that lies with the ride type, it isn't a fault with the safety instructions; I'd be willing to bet a fair chunk of money that at least 20% of the people who ride rapids on a day to day basis do exactly as this poor girl did.
You are certainly correct. Hundreds, probably even thousands do it all across the UK on a typical day and you never hear about it. This was a one in a million thing but it did happen. My point, as I said above, is that this was lower on the list of things that could go wrong with unattended kids in the park. Even if it doesn't jeopardize safety, unattended children in school groups are a pain in the rear in general. It's a problem that ranges from throwing trash on the midway to E-stopping rides to, in today's very rare and extreme case, a fun day at Drayton Manor ending in death. Bottom line is that young schoolchildren cannot be trusted or expected to make mature, informed decisions around a park full of other guests and equipment with safety regulations that all need consideration. Therefore, they need to be chaperoned by someone capable of being considerate with these things that can be held responsible for their actions.

Fun fact: Cedar Point has a park policy in place stating that if you force them to E-stop two rides in the same day that you get removed from the park.
 

Edward M

Strata Poster
I distinctly remember someone unbuckling during Popeye after a wall of water soaked him. Employees stopped the ride very soon after and threatened to have the man removed from the park. Needless to say, he did not get up again. I do hope that other parks would take care of things this well, but perhaps this accident is that final push to get them to do so.

I think it was a case of guest ignorance. It is certainly obvious that you should remain seated since it posted at every ride (including that one) and is said on literally every ride I can remember. Still, that is an age where trying to break rules to seem cool, funny, or dangerous is common. I can't blame the park at all on this one. I imagine that people standing on the ride is actually fairly common, and I think this was just a case of a bad timing. It more than anything seems like a really tragic accident, and it sadly cost someone's life. If anything, this is just another example to follow the rules at theme parks. They are there for a reason! I do wish the best regards to the family involved here who lost their kid.
 

chainedbanana

Hyper Poster
I do think signs need to be changed from 'please don't stand up' to 'Those seen standing will be ejected from the park' - to emphasise the seriousness of doing so!

seat belts would also be very symbolic in keeping people in their seats!
 

gavin

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
Sign changes and "no unaccompanied minors" on the way would be my guess.
 

Smithy

Strata Poster
Bottom line is that young schoolchildren cannot be trusted or expected to make mature, informed decisions around a park full of other guests and equipment with safety regulations that all need consideration. Therefore, they need to be chaperoned by someone capable of being considerate with these things that can be held responsible for their actions.

I don't see how that's relevant in this instance though?

As I've said above, I've probably done exactly as this girl did, in fact, I'd wager most of us have at some point. Do I need to ride with a chaperone?
 

addy2503

Mega Poster
The park have announced that they will continue to be closed on Friday the 12th
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Pokemaniac

Mountain monkey
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
I do think signs need to be changed from 'please don't stand up' to 'Those seen standing will be ejected from the park' - to emphasise the seriousness of doing so!
That message can be interpreted as "It's only a bad thing if you get caught", though. A pictogram of a person falling from the boat might get the message across better. You want to signal that standing up is forbidden because it's dangerous, not that it's forbidden and therefore cool to do as a dare. Threatening to expel people doesn't make the act of standing up seem more dangerous, only more forbidden. The park receives a great number of visitors who are in their "contempt for authority" age, so any warning signs better ground their message in danger rather than in authority.

Then again, a sign saying "standing up could lead to a very uncomfortable death and there'd be no hope of rescue" would cause the riders to perceive the ride - and by extension, the park - as unsafe, which would be very bad for business. Writing warning signs that get the message across without carrying an unintended meaning, is an art it seems.
 

Dave

CF Legend
Bottom line is that young schoolchildren cannot be trusted or expected to make mature, informed decisions around a park full of other guests and equipment with safety regulations that all need consideration. Therefore, they need to be chaperoned by someone capable of being considerate with these things that can be held responsible for their actions..

I work with groups regularly, particularly ones with young children visiting our site, they want to the children to explore and have fun. We want them to stay together but know it is impossible once they've left our attraction/ticket office. No chance of kicking them out, as we want to be paid, and also them to re-visit next year!

It's a horrible accident which as Gavin said will probably lead to some small changes around the parks and the same with the Merlin rapids as well most likely. But event with new signs, seatbelts that are introduced onto rapids this could happen again. Lost count the amount of times at work I have to go on board Victory for a First Aid incident because of a banged head, despite the clear signs, leaflets and telling visitors to mind their head on board the ship due to the low beams and entrance before going on board.
 

Smithy

Strata Poster
My thoughts and prayers go to the park and anyone who wished to visit the last few days but were unable to because some punk kid didn't want to follow the rules. I also feel for those who had to witness this and for those in line after her who were unable to ride.

**** right off our of here with that bull****.

"punk kid", who the **** are you to cast such an aspersion on an 11 year old child?

No sympathy for a dead 11 year old or her family but you "feel for those in line unable to ride".

You're a ****ing bell piece.





Nah, don't even care if the above gets me a ban, I'm not letting some little dickhead make comments like that and go unchallenged.
 

chainedbanana

Hyper Poster
That message can be interpreted as "It's only a bad thing if you get caught", though. A pictogram of a person falling from the boat might get the message across better. You want to signal that standing up is forbidden because it's dangerous, not that it's forbidden and therefore cool to do as a dare. Threatening to expel people doesn't make the act of standing up seem more dangerous, only more forbidden. The park receives a great number of visitors who are in their "contempt for authority" age, so any warning signs better ground their message in danger rather than in authority.

Then again, a sign saying "standing up could lead to a very uncomfortable death and there'd be no hope of rescue" would cause the riders to perceive the ride - and by extension, the park - as unsafe, which would be very bad for business. Writing warning signs that get the message across without carrying an unintended meaning, is an art it seems.

Yeah It's a hard call - I think sometimes people respond better to 'forbidden' than 'you might die' because humans do tend to take their life into their own hands and think safety doesn't apply to them!
a combination of 'you will be ejected - with image of the dangers would be a good combo 'for you own safety please remain seated - those seen standing may be ejected from the park' - would be a good balance!
 

TommyAlex

Mega Poster
I really don't think anyone deserves blame with this one. Sure, it's a rule that you're not allowed to stand up - but when you're just switching seats, some wouldn't think twice about it. Some people would forget that a Rapids ride is an actual Rapids - it's not a simulation of Rapids, nor is there any control over the boats. If you were GP, let alone 11 years old, you'd probably think a theme park ride like this is a controlled simulation. We've all heard gp say stupid things about how rides work - it's hardly surprising that people would stand up to switch seats, not even thinking about the fact it is an actual flowing Rapids.

Plus, to everyone placing blame saying all announcements and signs should be followed, I'm sure some of you who have said that in this thread are guilty of putting arms in the air on a roller coaster - like most would - even though it's a rule not to.
 

Slayed

Hyper Poster
Let's suppose that the raft in question had a responsible adult on it, specifically in charge of all the children on the raft.

Let's also suppose that the adult saw all of the relevant warning signs, and repeatedly made sure that every child understood not to stand up.

Even with all of that in place, this accident could still happen.

Would there be any blame to attribute?

I personally feel that, in this context, an 11-year-old cannot be assumed to be acting responsibly at all times - it's a ride specifically designed to be boisterous and unpredictable, and expecting an 11-year-old to appreciate that is wrong.

So for me, as a parent, a policy for a rapids ride that allows 11-year-olds onto it and then passes them full responsibly for their own safety is asking for an accident at some point.

I say this with full hindsight, as we took our kids onto Piraña at Efteling last year (4 and 5); I dithered like mad beforehand about whether to do it, even though I knew it was a relatively tame rapids, and crapped myself all around it. (They loved it obvs). I manically drilled them to stay seated, and was ready to pounce at any moment. Was I irresponsible? My honest answer is yes.

As someone who very nearly fell off Grand Canyon Rapids at Portaventura by being bloody stupid and standing to dodge a wave (THIS close), I also appreciate that stupidity cannot be prevented.

But I'm an adult. 11-year-olds should never die on a ride at a theme park due to the very nature of the ride. End of.

For me, Intamin shoulder some blame here. That may be an unpopular opinion, but I think the manufacturer should be removing the risk of death of 11-year-olds on their rides.

(But at what age should the threshold be set is an interesting question).

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