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Accident at Alton Towers

Smithy said:
Their lawyers are advising them very well here. It's no co-incidence that we've had interviews with those involved come out every couple of days to keep the story fresh.
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Very good point there - and another thing I noticed along the same lines. It was only reported on Monday/Tuesday of this week that Daniel Thorpe had been discharged - when he had, in fact, been discharged sometime last week.
 
It's in the tabloid's interests to keep stories stretched out too. No doubt if they find out 2 new facts on one day they'll stretch them out over 2 or 3 days in different articles.

Wonder how much more news we'll get. I feel like the hype is fading now but we've still got a lot more to potentially find out.
 
Isn't it about whether you are sending the next train before the previous one has reached the final break run? Also whether you've got a big train or a small car of people.
 
I think the definition of Multi Train Coasters are small cars with 5+ on the track at once.

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3Dimensions said:
Isn't Th13teen a multi-train coaster too? Surely they would've closed that like they did with the others?
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At the time of the incident it was only on two trains anyway because the third was broken, and since has gone back onto full capacity...
 
So (forgive me for stating the obvious) but is it safe to assume that this is purely down to human error, given the fact that Alton Towers have accepted full responsibility and are preparing to make very large payments to those affected? There has been absolutely no mention of Gerstauler paying out or taking any responsibility for the incident...

I still wonder if there is any weight in the theory I posted a few pages back. I was hoping somebody might either agree or disagree with me on this. As numerous videos on YouTube show the trains being reversed down the lift hill for evacuation, I wondered if this was what the ops were planning to do, given that a stalled train lay ahead. Surely the only viable option would be an evacuation. But, (complete speculation) if the train was held at the point of cresting the top of the hill, (which I believe it was) and engineering/whoever were to start the lift hill but in the wrong direction... There would be little to no time to correct the error before the train went over and gravity took control.
 
bellhop said:
So (forgive me for stating the obvious) but is it safe to assume that this is purely down to human error, given the fact that Alton Towers have accepted full responsibility and are preparing to make very large payments to those affected? There has been absolutely no mention of Gerstauler paying out or taking any responsibility for the incident...

I still wonder if there is any weight in the theory I posted a few pages back. I was hoping somebody might either agree or disagree with me on this. As numerous videos on YouTube show the trains being reversed down the lift hill for evacuation, I wondered if this was what the ops were planning to do, given that a stalled train lay ahead. Surely the only viable option would be an evacuation. But, (complete speculation) if the train was held at the point of cresting the top of the hill, (which I believe it was) and engineering/whoever were to start the lift hill but in the wrong direction... There would be little to no time to correct the error before the train went over and gravity took control.
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I think someone said on here or on the TT forum that there is a distinct difference between accepting responsibility and liability. They may however already have known early on that it was human error. Also the video was of the second vertical lift hill reverse, not the first hill. Not sure whether the first would have a reverse?

Some recent updates from the last day or so:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/al ... ks-5914939
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-st ... e-33198053
http://www.nottinghampost.com/Victims-l ... story.html

In summary- two of the seriously injured out of hospital, an interim compensation payout has been made and lawyers talking about the ride potentially not reopening (obviously subject to the investigation).

Still a steady stream of articles from lots of news outlets.
 
I was chatting today with someone who has seen a more complete version of footage filmed from the lift hill end of the ride. It appeared in the video that the train on the lift hill was stopping and starting going up the last couple of metres, then stopped near the top, but then the lift hill started moving very, very slowly forward, and the train crawled over the the top almost so slowly it was hardly moving, until gravity took over.

He said it looked like the computer was having problems reconciling the information it was receiving. Still not a definitive answer - we'll have to wait for the HSE report for that - but it's another nod towards the "ride system not functioning correctly" body of opinion.
 
Bellhop that's basically what I was asking a week or so ago, I think somebody showed a picture and it was clear the train wasn't actually cresting the hill and could in theory have been evacuated where it was.

Of course that doesn't mean that they didn't try and reverse the lift (if it's possible, I can't remember if there's any anti-rollback clunks on the first lift that would make it clear that it isn't)
 
CoastinBear said:
I was chatting today with someone who has seen a more complete version of footage filmed from the lift hill end of the ride. It appeared in the video that the train on the lift hill was stopping and starting going up the last couple of metres, then stopped near the top, but then the lift hill started moving very, very slowly forward, and the train crawled over the the top almost so slowly it was hardly moving, until gravity took over.

He said it looked like the computer was having problems reconciling the information it was receiving. Still not a definitive answer - we'll have to wait for the HSE report for that - but it's another nod towards the "ride system not functioning correctly" body of opinion.
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Thanks for the information. If that's true then it does suggest towards a ride system issue. I'm not sure that a manual override would cause that kind of stop-start response. In which care this could be a long drawn out investigation and issue.
 
Hear is something that is still sounding iffy but you never know. (as its from skynews and posted via msn)


As the first insurance payments are made to the victims of the Alton Towers crash, lawyers acting for some of the victims have said The Smiler ride may never open again.

Law firm Stewarts Law announced the payouts, which it said will help with the rehabilitation of its clients - Joe Pugh, Victoria Balch and Leah Washington and five others affected by the crash earlier this month.

The firm also signalled this could be the end of the road for the £18m ride - which has been dogged by various safety and technical problems since it opened in May 2013.

After a meeting with the Health and Safety Inspectorate, Paul Paxton of Stewarts Law, said: "The ride is likely to remain closed for a significant period of time; indeed it may never open again. The families are reassured that every angle is being thoroughly covered."

Mr Paxton, head of personal injury at the firm, said: "The families are satisfied that no expense is being spared in the investigation into what caused the accident on the Smiler ride at Alton Towers. The Health and Safety Inspectorate made it clear that the requisite multidisciplinary expertise was in place."

Alton Towers was closed for six days after two carriages collided on The Smiler on 2 June. It resulted in 16 people being left suspended above the ground as emergency services tried to free them. Four people were seriously injured.

Miss Washington, 17, had a leg amputated after the disaster. She could receive several million pounds in compensation, lawyers say.

Payouts will also be made to her boyfriend Mr Pugh, whose kneecaps shattered in the collision and Miss Balch who underwent surgery for significant leg injuries.


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/national/ ... lsignoutmd
 
spacebum said:
Hear is something that is still sounding iffy but you never know. (as its from skynews and posted via msn)


As the first insurance payments are made to the victims of the Alton Towers crash, lawyers acting for some of the victims have said The Smiler ride may never open again.

Law firm Stewarts Law announced the payouts, which it said will help with the rehabilitation of its clients - Joe Pugh, Victoria Balch and Leah Washington and five others affected by the crash earlier this month.

The firm also signalled this could be the end of the road for the £18m ride - which has been dogged by various safety and technical problems since it opened in May 2013.

After a meeting with the Health and Safety Inspectorate, Paul Paxton of Stewarts Law, said: "The ride is likely to remain closed for a significant period of time; indeed it may never open again. The families are reassured that every angle is being thoroughly covered."

Mr Paxton, head of personal injury at the firm, said: "The families are satisfied that no expense is being spared in the investigation into what caused the accident on the Smiler ride at Alton Towers. The Health and Safety Inspectorate made it clear that the requisite multidisciplinary expertise was in place."

Alton Towers was closed for six days after two carriages collided on The Smiler on 2 June. It resulted in 16 people being left suspended above the ground as emergency services tried to free them. Four people were seriously injured.

Miss Washington, 17, had a leg amputated after the disaster. She could receive several million pounds in compensation, lawyers say.

Payouts will also be made to her boyfriend Mr Pugh, whose kneecaps shattered in the collision and Miss Balch who underwent surgery for significant leg injuries.


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/national/ ... lsignoutmd
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I posted a similar article with the same quote a page back. It sounds like lawyer talk as yes, potentially the ride could be closed for good depending on the outcome of the investigation. I don't think it's much new info.

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Just taking the lawyer talk one step further in a way.

Obviously there's three scenarios that are responsible for the crash: human error, ride malfunction or combination of both.

Hypothetically could anyone see them removing the £18m ride if it was pure human error which caused the crash? That's a load of money to basically write off for what is a pretty new ride.

Say the crash was caused by the system not working correctly hence the train moving a bit erratically on the lift hill. Would that not perhaps indicate why so many rides were shut and why the park remained closed so long, and again why there is this talk of permanent closure. If it comes out there was a problem with the ride, the media is going to be screaming for answers as to why the ride was open, especially with the ride being "cursed and riddled with problems since day 1". That is the only scenario I can see them closing the ride to minimize negative press.

Also why would SAW still be closed if it was purely human error? Although as I think about it if the cause was a bug in the system or the software would other Gerstlauer coasters have been closed too.
 
ems991 said:
Just taking the lawyer talk one step further in a way.

Obviously there's three scenarios that are responsible for the crash: human error, ride malfunction or combination of both.

Hypothetically could anyone see them removing the £18m ride if it was pure human error which caused the crash? That's a load of money to basically write off for what is a pretty new ride.

Say the crash was caused by the system not working correctly hence the train moving a bit erratically on the lift hill. Would that not perhaps indicate why so many rides were shut and why the park remained closed so long, and again why there is this talk of permanent closure. If it comes out there was a problem with the ride, the media is going to be screaming for answers as to why the ride was open, especially with the ride being "cursed and riddled with problems since day 1". That is the only scenario I can see them closing the ride to minimize negative press.

Also why would SAW still be closed if it was purely human error? Although as I think about it if the cause was a bug in the system or the software would other Gerstlauer coasters have been closed too.
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I think most people agree from the evidence it was probably a combination of both, having heard merlin's wording of it being due to a series of unique events and knowing a bit about the amount of opportunities there would have been to prevent the crash leading up to it. Unless there is no way to stop the lift hill (ok so this emergency stop may have malfunctioned) there is at least SOME degree of human error involved in this. Someone should have seen the train and stopped the car. They may have seen it but we know they didn't stop it.

Also, I don't know how much the lawyers know at this point. They know full well that there is a possibility that the ride *could* be shut but I am taking those comments with a pinch of salt at this point. It is in their interest to keep the story in the news to ensure a maximum payout happens and it appears that this quote has done that for them.
 
That's just a lawyer doing his job, talk up the ride being closed as it further highlights how serious of a failing (not that it's really necessary given the injuries, but still, it's a new angle) this was.

Expect another story to come out in about a week or so.
 
We know for a fact that the ride was actually stopped on the lift hill for 10-15 minutes, so even if the ride was playing up, there must have been some degree of negligence involved.

Of course the ride is at fault here- let's not forget that it's untimely stall was the trigger for this whole thing anyway - but ultimately, it's the error of the ride operators which allowed it to happen. Not waiting for the train to return, not noticing the stalled train (potentially) not closing and evacuating the ride asap. After all, surely they could have just completely shut down the ride systems? Should they really have reopened the ride if it was playing up? So many questions!

Ultimately therefore, it boils down to a series of unlikely problems with the ride, made dangerously by operator error.
 
CoasterCrazy said:
Should they really have reopened the ride if it was playing up?
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It really makes me angry when people say stuff like this... Most breakdowns are minor issues where the ride isn't playing up but just doing what its supposed to do. They only temporarily close to follow procedures of getting extra staff involved, be that management or technical teams. The reason being is to reduce the already negligible chance of something going wrong by involving multiple persons.
 
ems991 said:
I'm guessing most of you have probably seen this as you've already talked about the shoddy Guardian article. Obviously this isn't much better

<Link removed as I cant post them!>

I'm guessing the technical issues reported are fairly standard and just the media leaping upon anything, but does anybody have any thoughts on that clip? It does seem to be coloured the same as Air?

*Edit* I'm also not sure how I feel about Alton Towers seemingly flat denying everything in this report
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Hi all,

I know this is old (and completely sensationalised) news, but I felt I needed to post with my views on that 'Clip' which caused so much trauma for the press.

I am 90% certain that the AT Staff member in the picture is holding is a Harting Dust Cover (I cant post links, but do a Google image search for Harting 16BAKQB-01)

Its basically a dust cover for a multi-pole electrical connector and in my eyes, points to very little safety risk at all (except for falling and hitting someone perhaps). These covers are there for when two connectors are not 'mated' together. The clips stop the two connectors from coming apart, and a cover is attached in the same way by 'clipping' onto an unused connector. Even if this was a connector between trains etc, the fact that the cover is not in use means that whatever cable is needed is likely plugged in instead! I would suspect however, its just a maintenance connection port.

You will notice in some pictures a nylon 'tether' is attached - these are used to tether the cover to the connector so it doesn't get lost when its not in use.

Anthony

PS - I have been a coaster nut for years, but this is my first ever post to a forum like this, I'm used to being a lurker on forums like this one and Towers Times etc. so hi everyone!
 
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