Schwarzkopf vs. Arrow

[Rob]

Ok, after yet another arguement on MSN betwwen me and trav, we want to know what the general opinion is on this subject, which was the better coaster manufacture/designer, Schwarzkopf or Arrow.
Credits:
Schwazkopf: 1st Vertical loop
Unique state of the art launch system designed in 1976
Wide range of fast, intense portable rollercoasters
Arrow: 1st Inversion ever
4d coaster
several thrilling mega/hypercoasters

So, what do you think?

In my opinion, i'd say the two are fairly even, arrow made the first inversion, schwarzkopf made the first loop, schwarzkopf made the first and faster launch, arrow made a similar one. While schwarzkopf rides were compact and trilling, they always look fairly out of place in parks (except the custom zierer versions) while the arrows seem to fit very well. So my opinion would be even.

 

[trav]

I personally think that Arrow were better.

I think that Arrow were pioneers (sp?), and a lot more so that Schwarzkopf. The only thing I can think of that Schwarzkopf did actually think up is their launch mechanisms. Arrow thought of the first inversion, they thought of more inversions than Schwarzkopf did, and then they went and created the 4D coaster, which I think will be one of the greatest coasters ever, they look so amazing.

Really, when I look at Arrows coasters compared to Schwarzkopf, I have to say Arrows look a lot more thrilling and just better imo.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Arrow coasters are poorly designed, poorly built and ...poor. However fun they might turn out is fluke.

Schwazkopf's, however, are VERY well designed. The way their layouts are designed to completely show off their layout is simply stunning. Their compactness is amazing. Their twirling, twisting track is epic.

Arrow suck, Schwazkopf are win.

 

[Lain]

Arrow has done more for the coaster industry than any other company.

Arrow wins.

 

[Ben]

Arrows are rough and dull.


Schwazs are smooth and exciting.


Guess which are better...

 

[LiveForTheLaunch]

Arrow.

Like Lain said, Arrow has done more for the coaster world than the other company, mainly being the production of 4D coasters, and the world's first Hyper coaster and so on.

No, I havn't been on a Shwarzkopf coaster or however the heck you spell it, but I know that even though Arrows can be rough, they've made a lot of successful coasters. I don't see many looked upon coasters being made by Shwarzkopf.

So yeah, Arrow.

 

[Ben]

and the world's first Hyper coaster

No. That would be Meisho Amusement Machines. Moonsault Scramble was 246ft.

mainly being the production of 4D coasters

Wow, BOTH of them?

Who was it that built the first modern loop? You know, the most important inversion around...

 

[Anonymous]

Schwatzkopf of course, even though I haven't ridden many Arrow yet.

http://schwarzkopf.coaster.net/HauptmenueGF.htm < a lot of Schwarzkopf information.

 

[Rob]

Arrow.

Like Lain said, Arrow has done more for the coaster world than the other company, mainly being the production of 4D coasters, and the world's first Hyper coaster and so on.

The 4d coaster shouldn't really be used as a credit to arrow, it made them bankrupt.
Otherwise, Schwarzkopf have done a hell of a lot for the industry, they were launching coasters at the same speed as some Intamin accelerators 30 years prior to the introduction of Intamin accelerators. If it were not for Schwarzkopf there would be no Maurer Sohne, Gerstlauer, or Werner Stengel, designer of most rides worldwide. Schwarzkopf also used what could be described as a primative thrust air launch mechanism. Their rides were ground breaking, and really paved the way into the future of rollercoasters.

 

[Hyde]

Though Schwatzkopf does arguably feature some better designed coasters layout, Arrow makes up for in ingenuity, creativity, and overall contribution to the coaster industry.

Firstly, Schwatzkopf's building of the first vertical loop was not too significant in the long run, more luck of the draw, as Cedar Point's Corkscrew, built by Arrow, opened only 8 days after wards, also featuring a vertical loop.

Also let's not forget that though Schwatzkopf built the first vertical loop, Arrow built the first steel tubular coaster. :razz:

Arrow could have very well taken the title were it not for Ohio's god forsaken weather. :lol:

Unlike Schwatzkopf, Arrow kept expanding their layouts and coasters, always pushing the envelope, reaching heights of 200 ft. and feature multiple inversions.

Though Schwatzkopf did evolve reasonably, it was no where near the growth which we saw with Arrow.

Arrow for me. Schwatzkopf was good, but Arrow was better.

 

[Jake]

Arrow have hardly made any decent coasters IMO.

Schwarz on the other hand made thrilling and smooth coasters, even the extremely old ones.

Just look at Arrows first coasters, hardly butter are they?

 

[Lain]

Who was it that built the first modern loop? You know, the most important inversion around...

I'd consider the corkscrew the most important inversion, many other inversions are based on it, using parts of it.

A loop is just... a loop.

 

[Ben]

Who was it that built the first modern loop? You know, the most important inversion around...

I'd consider the corkscrew the most important inversion, many other inversions are based on it, using parts of it.

A loop is just... a loop.

What and no other inversions are built with parts of loops...

The only ones spawned by Corkscrews (about from horrible cutbacks) are only there because of loops...

-Cobra Roll?
-Sea-Serpent Roll?
-Batwing?
-Sidewinder?

What have loops been a part of on top of that?

-Dive loops
-Immelmans
-Pretzel Loops
-Those horrible things at the start of SLCs

Hell, even G-Force's lift and Abismo's... thing owe shape to the loop.

 

[Dave]

Lets see, it can be summed up in

Lap bars on a inverting roller coaster, I think Schwarzkopf.

 

[Jer]

Erm it was a toughy, Putting aside how horribly designed Aroows are you need to look at what they did for the industry, not only did they make the first modern steel coaster, they were the first to run these coaster under the track. They made the first coaster with corckscrew inversions. Then they made the 4D....

Shwartzkopht invented the loop...yes(Revolution)...they invented the launch...you betcha(Weight drop on King Kobra)... which are both major inventions in themselves.

It's definatly a tough question....but i'll say they're even.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Suddenly, because your innovative... you're work is amazing?

So, like, Jackson Pollock is a fantastic artist? Because he was the first person to abtract from nothing...?

No, clearly... CLEARLY not.

Arrow coasters turn out crap. They are rough, slow, boring, dull. And lets not go into their trackwork! Because we'd be here all day.

Arrow have done some amaaaaazing things. They had the imagination, but their engineering skills and business management sucked a lot of willy and could be matched by first year uni students.

The proof is in the pudding, and quite frankly, Arrow make bread and butter pud. Schwarz offer Tesco's Finest Forest Fruits Cheesecake. Which, may i add, is the best cake in the world clearly. OR, if you don't like cheesecake, one of those double chocolate fudge cakes. Yup.

Besides, if Arrow hadn't of done it somone else would have sooner or later. The argument that they did so much for the coaster world is so very flawed.

BESIDES, Arrow were American. 8)

 

[SaiyanHajime]

But, i have ridden an Arrow Hyper... :? PMBO?

Their transitions are exacly the point, though. I'd like to see this picture. :lol:

Now, i've not ridden Desperado...

But my GOD, WHAT is that?

Random sections of pointless straight track... The ultimate (haha, ultimate, get it....? :lol: ) sign of a REALLY badly designed coaster. Meandering off in straight, pointless lines... And, what-the-hell is it doing in the far right? What is that? The transitions on the hills are appauling, it's like they just bent a copper pipe and used it as reference. They don't gradually change direction, they just suddenly go up or down. And they can't bank or turn corners. There is no consistancy, the layouts are unconsidered, the supporting is a bit... woah? The track work is just a joke.

And here's a question...

There's no doubt that Magnum is good. Everyone says it is. But what i don't get is that it was built 5 years before Desperado and PMBO... and yet, when Arrow built those it's as if they backtracked and forgot everything they done right with Magnum.

The fact that PMBO was sheering off it's own wheels when it opened on that drop... i mean, what? And then the hills are just a joke. It starts off with a really intense first drop and then meanders around the rest of it's track like it doesn't know what to do. There is no consdieration for weather either, which is shocking for the location. These are things you expect of somthing like Ultimate. Boring, slow, pointless sections followed by insainly intense ones. :roll: It's as if the manufacturers and designers had NO idea what they were doing, but the worrying thing is Arrow most certainly did.

So what happened? Did the engineers suffer brain damage from riding one of their inverters?

Regardless, i do love PMBO. But the reasons i love it are very Ultimate-esque. It isn't a well designed, manufactured or built coaster. In fact, it's quite appauling.

Arrow suck for failing to be consistant. And part of me is being fanboyish and missing Magnum Force (the Schwarz that used to be at Flamingoland, not some sort of scazy Arrow X Intamin hybrid) i guess. But i did genuinly enjoy that coaster a hell of a lot and i'd really love to ride more of it's kind. It's just so sad that their coasters are now so few and far between.

A lot of people think i named my character "Arrow the Porcupine" after the coaster company. But i most certainly did not. :lol: Although i did name an image i made "Arrow Dynamics" once.... this one.

 

[Snoo]

^I do quite wonder what happened with those big mistakes after Magnum. Everyone who's ever ridden Magnum always gives it rave reviews... but PMBO and Desperado are not even close.. besides those fanboys of course.


Both were good manufacuters to say the least, but I can't decide on which had a bigger impact.

Better rides? Arrow.. mostly and almost only for Magnum. Of all the rides built by either company, Maggy is head and shoulders above all competition.. IMO of course.

 

[Lain]

Who was it that built the first modern loop? You know, the most important inversion around...

I'd consider the corkscrew the most important inversion, many other inversions are based on it, using parts of it.

A loop is just... a loop.

What and no other inversions are built with parts of loops...

The only ones spawned by Corkscrews (about from horrible cutbacks) are only there because of loops...

-Cobra Roll?
-Sea-Serpent Roll?
-Batwing?
-Sidewinder?

What have loops been a part of on top of that?

-Dive loops
-Immelmans
-Pretzel Loops
-Those horrible things at the start of SLCs

Hell, even G-Force's lift and Abismo's... thing owe shape to the loop.

The basis of the corkscrew features in all of those elements aswell though (besides the X-Car things and the pretzel loop), so it's hardly fitting to say that the loop is more revolutionary (haha... revolutionary... XD).

And yes, Schwarzkopf built the first modern vertical loop, but Arrow had the first inversion down a year prior to that, they were one step ahead.

You can't deny that Arrow was the most innovative coaster company, without Arrow, the industry wouldn't be anywhere near where it is today.

 

[Tony]

I have only been on one crap arrow and no Schwarzkopf.

Alot of Arrow coasters look rough and crap but X looks amazing but alot of Schwarzkopf coasters look smooth and forceful and alot of them have good reviews so I am going to say Schwarzkopf.