UC said:
I'm more or less in agreement with Mike on this one. I don't quite think what you're saying is accurate. While I don't doubt your claims that you're "connected," somehow, I do think more of what you're saying is speculation based on what a friend said than actual information.
Given the track record over the course of 10+ years of the people I have gotten it from I feel it is very accurate.
UC said:
People. People. People. Meet one, leads to another, and another. Hearing things that baffle you; want to know more.
UC said:
This isn't specific enough. Tons of projects get stalled. In fact, the only reason this one was even announced was knee-jerk reaction to competitors in the area. It's a bit like owning a new house - if you get your COO (certificate of occupancy) two weeks too soon, you're going to feel like nothing's finished.
The fact the project has been pushed forward is proof enough that they're taking it seriously, so this statement makes little sense. It's just words thrown around because something was announced for a couple of years from now, and people are angry that they haven't seen any work.
Exactly! A knee jerk reaction! Exactly why the project has hit so many issues. The question for you is how far forward has it actually gone? Not very far at all. Penny pinchers that chop hours out for the sake of bottom line, switch main EMH offerings for CTicket to save on cost are the ones holding the project up. It is TDO. TDAnaheim is busting along with a billion dollar expansion in one park, a MARVELous one planned with early work starting in their other park, and quality hard ticket events. Very different style of managements. One is booming while one is struggling.
UC said:
Wow, alright. You've made a lot of very specific claims there, and the bottom line is if you were as well connected as you claim to be, you wouldn't be saying this stuff on a public coaster forum.
The first rule of working in/knowing reliable individuals in the industry is you keep your mouth shut regarding specific details.
Checking with people, waiting for them to post, and then being able to repeat what told is the proper order. The one that I follow.
With that said, let's start picking some of this apart.
UC said:
This should surprise no one, and I'm not sure why you're focusing on this - Disney (and most major parks) does things like this all of the time. It's a cheap way to bring popular attractions to multiple parks. It's nothing other than a dressed up version of buying a Vekoma SLC.
Glad you concur on its high odds of coming! It does Walmart the brand however. Steals business from one and saturates the offerings. Many would be less likely to head to the land of fun and the sun of they can go to their beloved OTown to see it.
UC said:
Adding on to this the fact that many Disney parks are hub-based and own a lot of land (especially the ones in Florida), and you're pulling at stones to claim it was designed for DHS. You could fit it almost anywhere. To make that claim is like saying "This sticky tack was designed to hold this paper to this wall."
The item you seem to be forgetting is the prep work that goes into the unused land. Soft ground is a very large issue but planning it to overlay on a dying area of used land lessens the cost that much more.
UC said:
Yeah, alright. Just as it was in 2007...and 2008...and 2009...
First talk of it surfaced around 2007 but 2008 saw the first actual work (although minor) done in park for it. Anything past '08 is fanboi speculation reviving an old project. It was mentioned recently as a part of the expansion.
UC said:
The bottom line is this attraction is probably completely hashed out at this point, and just waiting for the opportune time to get the go-ahead, when there aren't more pressing matters (which there always are). The MI ride was conceived at a time when everything was smooth sailing for WDW, and they had the cash to blow on smaller rides just to keep the ball rolling. This isn't the case anymore. There are far more pressing matters, including the rapid and successful emergence of some strong competitors, that are forcing the small projects to the backburner until the bigger things come out.
I would call this more pressing matters. Q4 reports will be about in a couple weeks and will be very interesting to read. I would not say in the slightest form 00's were smooth sailing for WDW. Eisner's last run was the start of a downfall for penny pinches. Yes! So you see the issue; little neighbor down the road is booming with innovation while TheLandofPixieDust is sitting around with its head to the side looking confused.
UC said:
I'd be surprised if the ride you're referring to ever comes to light. The next movie is set to release in 2013, and I guarantee that will be the true go-or-no-go test. If the movie does well, you may see it pushed up. If not, well, you're probably never going to see it at all.
The days of Disney wantonly spending cash on things out of their anticipation of franchise success are over, and you need to understand that. If the new Monsters Inc. movie shows signs of people continuing interest in the franchise, you may see something come up.
Right now, though, there are bigger fish to fry - and Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor doesn't pull in the kinds of numbers one would think justifies an additional franchise attraction.
Bigger fish being the fact that WDW has laid dormant. DHS is lacking in offerings. Take RnR outta the equation and what are you left with that is not aging? Not really anything. Fantasmic is breaking at a rapid rate with a few shows a month being cancelled. That did not used to happen.
UC said:
This statement right here makes me question any connection to the "inner workings" you claim to have.
You completely underestimate the time and resources dedicated to this market. It is very much a case of "all hands on deck" - and you can rest assured that they take priority at the moment.
I'm not suggesting that Disney is incapable of doing multiple things at once, merely that projects the scale you're talking of are not something they throw around any more. Those days left when they realized they weren't the only fish in the sea.
The current focus on WDW is Fantasyland 2.0. Once that is over, they'll move on to their next announced project.
Take a look at what was going on at the time Disney Sea was being built. Two other parks. They could pull that off with the best park in the company then WDI surely has the resources.
UC said:
Part of being successful in this industry is not over-saturating your guests. If you build too much too soon, you give people no reason to come back, and you give them plenty of reason to hold off their current vacations until you're finished with everything. Hence why multiple major projects for the same areas are almost never announced, and started, concurrently, and the days of the age where you could just "start work" on something and have no one notice until they've spent their money to show up and see it for themselves are over. We have the internet, and it takes us all of sixty seconds to figure out what's going on halfway around the world.
Over saturating, eh? Like people coming back to the parks and nothing new is offered? Sounds exactly like what is going on. You are correct, things do not just happen at the click of fingers and sprinkles of the MAGICal dust emitted by the fireworks. You as well are not looking at TDA and what they have turned around in Cali after the former management was ousted when DLR started hemorrhagic $$$s. The pull it off. TDO is clinching onto the seat and running. (That can be found elsewhere as well).
UC said:
Parks, especially resorts like Disney who rely on their guests coming and staying for a period of time, spread out their new additions. It's the best way to get bang for your buck. You let people focus and drive on one thing at a time, and add your stop-gap fillers in between. THIS would be the niche that, assuming all goes well with the new movie, the supposed MI coaster would fill.
So no, it's not down to "multiple projects at the same time." That would be fiscal suicide, and believe me, Disney knows it. They'll be finishing up Fantasyland 2.0 soon. After that, it will be on to the next announced project.
Notice I did not say MIDC is near as concrete as CL but is on the table as a serious addition. You call it fiscal suicide but forget about the ships built, DCA's expansion, Shangai, and FLE that were all going on at the same time. The issue with CL is that NakedBluePeople has been announced. But thus the plan for CL is much farther down the line of happening than Pandora.
UC said:
DAK is running its course until Avatar arrives. Avatar is to be the latest "fix" for DAK. That said, the park isn't exactly struggling, and why anyone still thinks it is is beyond me. It's actually been the only WDW park that has had a steady - albeit minor - increase in total patronage over the last four years. It's equipped perfectly well enough to survive until 2014 or so.
DAK had its hours chopped from a popular time during EMH to nothing post 6pm. That wreaks of budget cutting. Notice the trend of its increase. Patrons move to those not regularly visited.
UC said:
DHS isn't struggling either. The new fastpass system will require patrons to reserve later times at the park for the rides and - more importantly - Fantasmic, which will keep people in the area longer. Adding Fantasmic to the system was a stroke of genius, to be honest. Additionally, it sees a higher percentage of AP holders, due to the nature of its rides, which always help keep numbers higher.
DHS is not struggling when a project is moving faster than another announced project? Screams of needing something fast. Fantasmic with the nearly inoperable Maleficent and regularly breaking lift for finale Mickey. Fantasmic is another victim of lax maintenance. AP discounts have gone up for CMs and DVC Members. If there was a good number of those then they would not have upped the discount. Simple supply and demand.
UC said:
It always blows me away when people accuse any of the WDW parks of being "weak." Would Disney like to keep people around? Of course - but they aren't going to do it with major expansions. They're much smarter than to blow money like that. They're doing it by offering more night entertainment at the venues specifically related to that - Downtown Disney, for example (which also helps cater to DHS's typically youthful audience).
You sound like TDO with thinking WDW is invincible. Fresh offerings are required to get people there and keep them coming back. Laying off projects and keeping the same will/does not work. What reason is there to keep people returning? Nothing. This data/money mining initiative of NextGen surely is not really going to help. Seems that is the reason a DHS expansion is being ramrodded like a form of heal... don't think I should go there.
I do not know if you are serious about DtD. Have you really been there recently? Pleasure Island is sitting mostly dormant, DisneyQuest is rotting with broken games and entrance elevator that's special features are hardly every working. Splitsville, which conveniently is being funded by Splitsville, is the best thing going for the area. Otherwise it is a Disney exclusive shopping mall with nice dining venues. Nothing to write home about, nothing truly unique other than the WDW mall.
UC said:
All of this talk of needing major expansions, and of things being fast-tracked for these perceived problems, it's all just knee-jerk talk, and to be honest, it sounds like its coming from someone who believes that WDW is their only property in the world. Disney isn't going to fire off a bunch of projects in panic mode, they're being much more calculated than that.
I and several others feel it is much more than knee jerk. Guess the next few months will tell, eh? Feels like it is the only property they have... or someone who goes rather frequently and like others have found offerings are better down I4 or just across it.
