Is there a difference in cost between manufacturers?

[mouse]

I'm sorry Koppen but I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make? You say that Gerstlauer produce a less expensive ride system, but thats not the same thing as being cheaper... Surely the less expensive ride system makes the entire product cheaper?

 

[gavin]

^ Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but the point he's making is that if a company offered an exact same product, then the cost would be the same. The cost of the coaster is based on design/hardware, not the "brand" of coaster since that would mean nothing to the vast majority of park visitors.

Currently, outside of the Chinese manufacturers, nobody that I can think of actually offers an exact model. I'd guess that it's safe to say that a Beijing Shibaolai SLC would cost about the same as a Golden Horse SLC, so Koppen would be right in that respect.

The problem is that the Western manufacturers don't offer a near-identical product, so the argument kind of falls down a bit. If a small park wants, for example, a coaster which hangs below the tracks, goes upside down and is visually imposing, but without the £10m+ price tag, then they'll get an off-the-shelf Vekoma SLC.

If Vekoma changed the hardware to match B&M's, then sure the prices would be much closer, but the whole point of an SLC is to offer a similar/equivalent ride experience at a lower cost.

 

[Ireeb]

To clarify my opinion: I think that the manufacturers that have been around for a long time and have a good name (e.g. B&M) may be able to sell their coasters slightly more expensive than other manufacturers, because theme parks will probably be ready to pay a bit more if they are sure that they will get a good reliable ride. But I'm talking about slight differences. If Gerst built a coaster similar to a B&M one, it would still be really expensive, but probably not as expensive as if B&M did it. Anyway, Gerstlauer doesn't tend to build big rides, because even if they would be cheaper, they probably couldn't compete with B&M, Intamin and the other bigger manufacturers. That's why they specialized on medium sized rides, getting as much fun as possible while using as little resources as possible. (For example Karacho is a really funny coaster, on just ~700 meters of track.). That makes the rides cheaper of corse, fitting better into the budget of smaller parks.
I also believe that (keeping our examples) B&M and Gerstlauer are not direct competitors, since B&M wouldn't want to build a ride for Gerstlauer's prices and they probably wouldn't want to build such small rides for image reasons, and Gerstlauer won't get a contract for a B&M sized coaster, because parks would want to put such a big investment into the hands of someone who has proven themselves many times.
Disclaimer: This is purely based on my perception. Feel free to argue for and against my views (as long as you stay polite, some of the posts here already had a negative, sarcastic touch which I didn't like). I have no facts to prove my opinion, but I'm ready to change it if someone can deliver facts accordingly. (Parallels in the car industry and other "metaphors" are no facts.)

I just wanted to clarify my opinion because my post kinda started this whole discussion.

 

[DelPiero]

If Gerst built a coaster similar to a B&M one, it would still be really expensive, but probably not as expensive as if B&M did it. Anyway, Gerstlauer doesn't tend to build big rides, because even if they would be cheaper, they probably couldn't compete with B&M, Intamin and the other bigger manufacturers.
I also believe that (keeping our examples) B&M and Gerstlauer are not direct competitors, since B&M wouldn't want to build a ride for Gerstlauer's prices and they probably wouldn't want to build such small rides for image reasons, and Gerstlauer won't get a contract for a B&M sized coaster, because parks would want to put such a big investment into the hands of someone who has proven themselves many times.

Just to pick up on this. Gerst have entered the large coaster market with Karnan, I would certainly class that as a B&M sized coaster. It would be interesting to compare the prices of Karnan to a B&M hyper. Obviously there is major differences in the ride hardware but that's the closest comparison at the moment.

 

[Chris Brown]

I did look into the Karnan / B&M hyper argument but couldn't find any reasonable facts, Karnan features the extremely complex drop section within the lift and also the huge 200ft tower itself. The cost of the ride was cheaper than a B&M hyper but there were no broken down costs to differentiate between ride hardware, thememing and the new area itself. Karnan is also approximately 1000ft shorter and comparatively low to the ground when compared to the hypers. If someone were to properly delve into the German websites surrounding hansa park they would probably have more luck than me.

 

[Lofty]

Not to mention that most online costs and prices that you can find online also include the theming elements and extra buildings, so Karnan would be a really hard one to look at as the additional cost of that HUGE tower etc., wouldn't give you a fair price.

 

[DelPiero]

^ & ^^ Absolutely. If there was a way of getting the cost of the ride itself then it would be worth comparing. I was just pointing out that Gerst are now entering the big ride market, and while they are in their infancy at creating these larger rides, they can do them and would be considered if a park wanted a 200ft coaster.

Personally I think that most manufacturers have a specific style and type of rides, there are some which are similar (Vekoma SLCs and Intamin suspended for example) and could be directly compared, but the majority are reasonably unique.
You get what you pay for, if you have $5m to spend then you're restricted to smaller rides and most companies can submit a proposal, but if you're willing to spend $30m then the designs are bigger and better with less companies having the technology to built what you want.
But I don't think the brand dictates the price, more the tech.

 

[Ireeb]

While Kärnan definitely reaches into the B&M spectrum with its length and height, I don't believe that Gerstlauer will deliver such coasters regularly. What I also thought about yesterday evening: It's probably impossible for two manufacturers to offer the exact same ride (same layout, same train type) for the same price, without considering the profit. We could use B&M and Gerstlauer as examples again.

• They are in different countries, the taxes are probably different
  They probably have different staff sizes, with different pays
  They have different designs which probably have different material efficiencies (Maybe one uses more raw materials to accomplish the same thing)
  Depending on the staff size, company structure and organisation, and the designs, one manufacturer might need more or less time to accomplish the same thing.

Those were just a few random ideas, where price differences could come from, aside from different profit margins.
But still, my arguments are only based on my thoughts. I would really like to send Gerstlauer an E-Mail right now and ask them about this matter xD

 

[Robbie]

I'm no expert or anything, but surely if B&Ms are (or could be) as cheap as Gerstlauer every park would have a B&M, and The Smiler wouldn't have bolts falling it off it every other week?