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Launch LSM/LIM Sounds

Ireeb

Mega Poster
I just stumbled across something interesting. It seems like Indrivetec and Intrasys are somehow connected. In this German Forum they noticed that in the past, Intrasys listed Intamin Coasters in their reference list, as you can see in an old version of the Intrasys website.
2013 Indrivetec was founded - and the Intamin coasters disappeared from Intrasys' website.
In the forum they guessed that Intamin enticed employees away from Intrasys and put them into a newly founded company, so they have their own LSM-manufacturer.
 

Hyde

Matt SR
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This is all much better than the way I explain LSMs/LIMs to non-coaster enthusiasts:

Going back to differences in harmonics - would train design also play a factor in different sounds for respective launches? This is not only differences in wheels, wheel assembly, chassis, etc.; but also where riders are placed/seated with respect to the launch mechanism. As observed here; difference coaster types (and manufacturers) can develop different sounds for the same types of LSM or LIM launches. I've also noticed this with regards to magnetic brake runs, even between same manufacturers such as B&M or Intamin.
 

Hixee

Flojector
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Going back to differences in harmonics - would train design also play a factor in different sounds for respective launches? This is not only differences in wheels, wheel assembly, chassis, etc.; but also where riders are placed/seated with respect to the launch mechanism. As observed here; difference coaster types (and manufacturers) can develop different sounds for the same types of LSM or LIM launches. I've also noticed this with regards to magnetic brake runs, even between same manufacturers such as B&M or Intamin.
When it comes to structural harmonics, everything (everything) matters. Tiny changes in the distribution of the mass of the vehicle (riders in different positions, longer trains, different restraints), the stiffness of the vehicle (the shaping and structure of the zero car, for example), the position of the magnets (buried in a trench like Taron, or up in the air like Fury 325), the ambient temperature (will affect the stiffness of all of the materials involved), the launch fin arrangements (as Ireeb has described above). It really does all matter, and would be desperately hard (I'd argue impossible with today's technology) to predict the noise ahead of time. The major stuff you'd be able to account for, but there will be plenty of minute details.

Of course, again, many of these differences between coasters, trains, times of day, times of year, etc will only make marginal differences to the sound you can actually hear, but they are definitely different.
 

CrashCoaster

CF Legend
@ATI, if you've got any more questions - fire away! :p I'm sure between us (the members on here) we can muddle our way to an answer to most things. ;)

Ok then, how long would it take to fully charge up a launch system for one launch, where the only power source is a standard 240V plug socket? ;)
 

Hixee

Flojector
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Ok then, how long would it take to fully charge up a launch system for one launch, where the only power source is a standard 240V plug socket? ;)
Again, I can only really speak from my experience with buildings, but most plant (for example, air handling units, exhaust fans, chillers, many of these can have very large motors generating lots of power) are often only wired from the building's low-voltage supply - which is often at 240V or 400V (I think that's some sort of industry standard). These are seriously big pieces of equipment, pulling massive currents and really putting a lot of stress on the electrical infrastructure of the building. However, they could, essentially, be wired off the same panels as the plug sockets (you just have to make sure your breakers and fuses are up to it). You'll often run higher voltages for long distance distribution due to the reduced losses, but once you're down at the equipment level, it's the current you really want, so the voltage is stepped back down.

I would imagine that for most parks it's something similar. They'll have a high-voltage mains coming into the site, with a transformer stepping it down to medium-voltage for distribution around the park. Each ride likely then has it's own transformer (or smaller rides will share one) to take the voltage down even further to be usable. Magnetic launches will have large banks of capacitors to store up energy between the launches, meaning the grid seems a more steady load.

In fact, let's try some maths (with all the usual caveats of these sort of things - no friction, 100% energy transfer, I don't really know what I'm doing, etc).

Let's say we get an 8-tonne coaster train to 50 mph, at the end of the launch run the coaster would have [close to] 2 MJ of kinetic energy. Assuming a 240 V supply, with a 13 A fuse (similar to what you'd find for a laptop), that's delivering 3.1 kW of power. Dividing one by the other will, in theory, tell you how long it takes to deliver 2 MJ - in this case 645 seconds, nearly 11 minutes.

Capacitors aren't really that fast at charging, but this is where, without a bit more information on the size and properties of the capacitor, it would be hard to say for sure! Of course, they're likely running off much larger breakers than just 13 A, so they won't take anything like as long to charge as this! Plus, they could make parallel sets of capacity banks allowing one to remain charging while the other discharges, giving you double the time to charge a set.

I should add, that most of my knowledge of this stuff is A-level physics and some 2nd-3rd year courses at university, as well general cross-discipline learning from my colleagues at work.

EDIT: It's late and I can't sleep - so apologies to anyone who does actually know what they're doing for any errors in the above. Happy to stand corrected. :p
 

zazobo

Hyper Poster
I thought that the sounds on Red Force was artificial (at least to an extent)... I had thought they added something to make it sound like a car accelerating.

Am I totally off the mark!?
 

Hyde

Matt SR
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^ Yes. That is the actual sound of magnetic launch/train acceleration.

Let's say we get an 8-tonne coaster train to 50 mph, at the end of the launch run the coaster would have [close to] 2 MJ of kinetic energy. Assuming a 240 V supply, with a 13 A fuse (similar to what you'd find for a laptop), that's delivering 3.1 kW of power. Dividing one by the other will, in theory, tell you how long it takes to deliver 2 MJ - in this case 645 seconds, nearly 11 minutes.
To put this another way: for an electric vehicle charger, a 240V charge offering 3 kW of power puts 22 miles of range on an EV within an hour. Hardly enough energy to move an 8-ton train at any meaningful acceleration. :p

Offhand, I know Cedar Point had to lay all new conduit and DC lines when they built Maverick, as the park did not have enough power for meeting the energy need. You can see the concrete slaps that were installed as part of this new conduit skirting Perimeter Road. So yes: lots and lots and lots of energy is needed to make these magnetic launches happen.

1.PNG
 

zazobo

Hyper Poster
^ Yes. That is the actual sound of magnetic launch/train acceleration.

That's awesome and makes me very happy. I had assumed because it sounded too 'car like' that it was artificial. I love that it's not.
 

Ian

From CoasterForce
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Hahaha, reading the replies between Hyde, Hixee and Ireeb has given me a headache but I did learn something, and it gives me a chance to post this overused meme.
tenor.gif


Sorry to bring the topic down to my level. As you were.
 

Ireeb

Mega Poster
Hahaha, reading the replies between Hyde, Hixee and Ireeb has given me a headache but I did learn something, and it gives me a chance to post this overused meme.
tenor.gif


Sorry to bring the topic down to my level. As you were.
Good memes can't be overused.
 

Hyde

Matt SR
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That's awesome and makes me very happy. I had assumed because it sounded too 'car like' that it was artificial. I love that it's not.
"America is all about speed, hot nasty bad-ass speed" - Eleanor Roosevelt
 
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