Dear Robb Alvey: a rebuttal

[STC]

First published on TTF, but I think it's important so I'm going to republish it here.

Reading Robb Alvey's review of Th13teen has really irritated me so I'd like to provide a detailed counter-argument to each of his points in turn. Firstly here's his big two quotes about the ride:

Thirteen is basically a "Roller Skater" through the woods with a small "Tower of Terror" like drop at the end. The ride is really tame and unless you've never been on Tower of Terror isn't not terribly exciting. Would have been better marketed as a runaway mine train for families, not the most psychologically challenging ride in the world. The only psycological challenge you may have is "How long did I just queue for that?" It's not a bad ride, but it fails at being either a great family ride or a great thrill ride. What a disappointment.

I rode it about 5 times during our ERT. Front, middle, back, etc. Some of our people rode it a few more times.

I actually thought it got worse each time I rode it. Not that it's a bad ride, but with each ride I took I felt like the effects of any tricks that it even moderately succeeded at were being lessened on me with each ride. To the point that by the 5th ride I took, I felt that the drop was actually laughable.

So much money and technology spent on a trick that really does so little.

Unlike the Tower of Terror drop, Winja's trick tracks, Everest's backwards section, or Mummy's fake ending, the drop as a unique coaster element just seemed kind of stupid to me, especially after you've been on it once. It's a trick that seems to have a lot of potential, but when you only drop what feels about 15 feet, it's just kind of silly.

It's not a great thrill ride because it's not that thrilling, and it's not at all a good family ride because it has a 48" height restriction. Had this coaster been given a 40" height restriction like Expedition Everest, Space Mountain, or Tower of Terror, or even a 42" height restriction like Powder Keg then I think you'd have a great family ride. But at 48"? No way. It's a giant Roller Skater with a 15 foot drop section. THAT'S IT! And it has the same height restriction as X2.

Even the girl in the exit shop told me "It's really not that thrilling, is it?" And she's absolutely right.

Thirteen is like the "Italian Job" of Alton Towers. It's not a bad ride, but it fails at being either a great thrill ride or a great family ride.

Let me make it clear, that I agree with him about the outdoor section to an extent. It isn't amazing, but I consider it really simply a warm-up to the meat of the ride: the drop and backwards helix. It basically pads out the ride, though actually it's not that bad. In the back you get quite thrown over the first drop and there is a moderate amount of airtime on those hills. It's also in a beautiful setting, something which can't be said for the majority of American coasters.

The ride is really tame and unless you've never been on Tower of Terror isn't not terribly exciting.

I've been on Towers of Terror, and though I don't think Th13teen is as good (to be fair, ToT is the best non-coaster ride in the world in my book) it doesn't detract from Th13teen at all for me. I actually find Th13teens drop more intense than any of the drops on ToT, because though it's tiny, as MANY people have pointed out it's the 'downwards acceleration' that matters, not the height. This is why I find Th13teens 15ft more thrilling than the 252ft drop on Knott's Supreme Scream.

Would have been better marketed as a runaway mine train for families, not the most psychologically challenging ride in the world.

Oh I didn't realise that Runaway Mine Train's aren't meant for families already

Anyone with any intelligence could see this ride was a family-thrill from a mile off. Are you just a bit bitter because you fell for the marketing PR and now feel a bit stupid? In defence of the Morwenna marketing style, I'd argue that it's really ahead of it's time in terms of theme park marketing, and way ahead of the US. Hence why Screamscape keeps getting confused thinking that Towers is some bizarre ghetto park that just does weird stuff. US parks still seem to be stuck in this "noble" phase where they think this kind of thing is above them and they should just issue press releases saying the details of a new ride which never get any national news coverage anyway because they're just advertisements - they don't bother to dress them up as entertaining news. They're stuck in the past, it's the way of the future.

The only psycological challenge you may have is "How long did I just queue for that?" It's not a bad ride, but it fails at being either a great family ride or a great thrill ride. What a disappointment.

Everyone knows it has large queues because it's opening year. By the time SW7 arrives that thing will be walk-on as it's an absolute through-put MONSTER. And it's a HUGE achievement by Intamin and Wardley in achieving that, I think it will be looked back on as a benchmark in the industry for engineering and throughputs. The speed of the dispatch, the minimal restraints, the speed of both lifthills, the almost non-existent time between the drop and the launch and the speed each train gets propelled into the station are all great achievements. To emphasise it again, the time between the drop and the launch is astonishing, considering that piece of track has completely disengaged and re-engaged with a new piece of track. And it's what, less than 2 seconds? Amazing with all the sensors and mechanics that must require.

I actually thought it got worse each time I rode it. Not that it's a bad ride, but with each ride I took I felt like the effects of any tricks that it even moderately succeeded at were being lessened on me with each ride. To the point that by the 5th ride I took, I felt that the drop was actually laughable.

You listen to the absolutely petrified screams I hear EVERY time I ride Th13teen after the 'teaser' drop and the even louder screams as the train accelerates backwards and tell me that it only "moderately succeeds" at its tricks, keeping with the restrictions the park has and keeping it suitable, I don't see how it could be done much better. Another great achievement of the ride is it must be the first major coaster in the world where a good proportion of riders are completely unaware of two huge signature elements of the ride. Now picture yourself riding for the first time, not knowing what's coming and I can't think how terrified *I* would be after the teaser drop. I'd even go as far as saying the outdoor section is there so first-timers suspect it's nothing more than an ordinary coaster. Having ridden many drop towers, although the drop isn't super-intense it's nowhere near "laughable".

Unlike the Tower of Terror drop, Winja's trick tracks, Everest's backwards section, or Mummy's fake ending, the drop as a unique coaster element just seemed kind of stupid to me, especially after you've been on it once. It's a trick that seems to have a lot of potential, but when you only drop what feels about 15 feet, it's just kind of silly.

So Mummy's fake ending didn't seem "kind of stupid" after the first ride? Because for me, the entire effect was lost the second time around because I knew it wasn't real, and it entirely played on that (not criticising, it's a great ride!). Huh, logic fail Alvey. But on Th13teen, you can still enjoy the physical thrill of the trick time after time.

It's not a great thrill ride because it's not that thrilling, and it's not at all a good family ride because it has a 48" height restriction. Had this coaster been given a 40" height restriction like Expedition Everest, Space Mountain, or Tower of Terror, or even a 42" height restriction like Powder Keg then I think you'd have a great family ride. But at 48"? No way. It's a giant Roller Skater with a 15 foot drop section. THAT'S IT! And it has the same height restriction as X2.

Firstly: NOT MEANT TO BE A THRILL RIDE. Bless, still bitter you fell for Morwenna's little tricks that the average TTF 13 year old can see through? I think 48" suits the ride fine. It's almost like your lumping all "family coasters" into the same bracket. I think there's a gradient. As in some family coasters are built for families + children of any age to ride. Some are built for families + children over 10. Some are built for families + children over 12, like Th13teen. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just a specific market. I'd argue Th13teen is more intense than Tower of Terror and Space Mountain, and warrants the higher restriction.

Even the girl in the exit shop told me "It's really not that thrilling, is it?" And she's absolutely right.

See point above.

In response to this:

Did you guys ride it at any point not during ERT? A surprising amount of "whole families" ride the coaster as can be seen especially if your stood by the exit.

This was his reply:

Look dude. Let me make one thing perfectly clear about this point. I am right. You are wrong. Now please STFU about it because no one wants to hear your stupid Alton Towers fanboy bull$#!% outlook on the park.

I hope I'm clear on that.

What a deeply unpleasant and pretentious thing to say from a man who seems deeply unpleasant and pretentious. He was making a very good point and being very friendly in doing so, not having a go at all. Can you even see us common folk from up on your high pedestal Robb? You clearly can't answer the point, so you've seemingly abandoned any sense of diversity of opinion on your forum and have turned to stupidly abusing anyone who doesn't agree with the almighty Alvey, who's opinions must be accepted as a divine truth. Probably because you unfortunately aren't intelligent enough to answer it properly and in anyway respectably.

I am right. You are wrong. Now please STFU about it because no-one wants to hear your stupid Theme Park Review outlook on anything. I hope I'm clear on that.

 

[furie]

Sam, don't take this personally, but I'm going to lock this until the mods have had a chance to discuss it.

We have a "don't complain about other sites" vague kind of policy here, and this is in a grey area on that front.

Once we've discussed, we'll let you know the outcome, okay?

 

[Ian]

Robb Alvey is neither right or wrong and his opinion matters no more than yours or mine. That's because his opinion is his opinion, whether you agree with it or not. I think that the majority of people are clever enough to form their own opinions rather than blindly follow what one person says.

Furie was right to lock the topic. At the end of the day, rollercoasters and theme parks shouldn't be taken too seriously because they are places of fun and entertainment.

You are free to post your own opinions on CoasterForce but please keep spiteful personal attacks towards individuals or other groups off the forums.