FORUMS - COASTERFORCE
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Clones
- Thread starter mouse
- Start date
Colossus
Giga Poster
I have ridden only 2 coasters with the same layout (even the same name) Corkscrew at Flamingo Land and formally Alton Towers. Yes i gave myself 2 credits because although the layout is the same they are 2 separate coasters. Slight differences in the level of themeing and Flamingo Land have the older trains, but i cant remember the ride experience being no different, both hurt like hell lol.
CoasterCrazy
Giga Poster
I haven't ridden any clones myself (apart from several flat rides) but there several things that could make the ride experience different:
1.)Scenery, for example if you were to ride space mountain without any scenery then it would be a lot worse*
2.)When the ride was built-if Vekoma were to make another corkscrew model today then it would be a lot smoother and better than one built in 1980!
3.)Trains-the original trains for corkscrew (AT) would be way more painful!
4.)Queue time..? The longer the queue, the more moody you are when you ride.
5.)The person you're sitting next to! Who would like to ride with a drunk man...? :--D
6.)Effects like water jets
Tell me if you think of any more!
*The actual ride isn't that good anyway
1.)Scenery, for example if you were to ride space mountain without any scenery then it would be a lot worse*
2.)When the ride was built-if Vekoma were to make another corkscrew model today then it would be a lot smoother and better than one built in 1980!
3.)Trains-the original trains for corkscrew (AT) would be way more painful!
4.)Queue time..? The longer the queue, the more moody you are when you ride.
5.)The person you're sitting next to! Who would like to ride with a drunk man...? :--D
6.)Effects like water jets
Tell me if you think of any more!
*The actual ride isn't that good anyway
bizarrofan10
Hyper Poster
Obviously I count them. I don't understand why this is a question. They are two separate coasters at two different parks.
Examples:
Vekoma Boomerang (standard, Invertigo, GIB)
Arrow Corkscrew
B&M Inverted - Batman The Ride
B&M Flyer - Superman: Ultimate Flight
Vekoma SLC
Examples:
Vekoma Boomerang (standard, Invertigo, GIB)
Arrow Corkscrew
B&M Inverted - Batman The Ride
B&M Flyer - Superman: Ultimate Flight
Vekoma SLC
I don't count them for a few reasons:
1. A single coaster can be massively different in terms of "ride quality" depending on where you sit on the train. The "different experience" argument fails here, each seat should be counted as a different ride experience.
2. If you count clones, then you should count relocated rides. It's all about "the clone is different because of location/theming/build". When you move a coaster, you change all of these things (by moving a coaster, you're altering tiny amounts of the build, therefore making it potentially as different as a clone). I don't count relocated rides, ergo I don't count clones.
3. It means I can walk past a coaster of a type I've been on before and not feel the urge to jump on it "for my count". It's a freedom thing
4. What is the benefit of counting clones? I can see an argument for counting say the Batman clones, but Big Apples? Super Dragons? Zierer Smalls? Pinfari Zbloody40s? Okay, here's the rant:
When you've been on a ride, you've been on it. You have a good idea what the experience is. I know that every Big Apple in the world has a ride experience of "dull as ****". I just don't need to ride any more to cement this as a fact. I knew it the first time I went on one. Why would I want to a) ride any more? b) present multiple ones proudly in a collection? It's just completely pants. I think my coaster count is something like 250 (I honestly can't remember), but without the complete bollocks, it's about 200. That's 200 individual rides. While "I've been on 250 coasters" is a good brag, it means nothing if 50 of those are just complete and utter tosh. My biggest issue is that people are tempted to either push around their coaster count as a reason why they should be respected ("I've been on 150 rides, you've been on 20, I know more about this than you" - the truth is that 100 of those rides are kiddie coasters and trash, but the 20 they're arguing against are world class rides the 150 owner could only dream of going on). It works inversely too, with somebody with a small coaster count perhaps bowing down too eagerly to somebody with a large count when they shouldn't for the previous reason.
The reason I realised this was simply my own count. I hit 100 coasters in 2006 and only 4 were outside of the UK. Something like 25% of my coasters were clones. At the time, CF didn't have too many people with big counts, and 100 was a substantial number. However, I talked on the forums to people with much smaller counts but realised they'd had coaster experiences one hundred fold better than mine. My count was absolutely no indicator of anything, yet everyone took it so seriously.
There are counter arguments though I'm happy to accept.
1) Bollocks to it, it's just fun.
2) I like to keep track of all the coasters I've been on using CoasterCounter (or whatever) and bollocks to it, it's just fun.
3) Riding clones means credit hunts, which means I'm travelling all over the country enjoying myself just to go on another clone. This supports the small parks and adds character to a site like CF. Bollocks to it, it's just fun.
4) When I'm with a group like CF, it's a laugh to go on this crap with others. Bollocks to it, it's just fun.
I'm happy to argue with people over this, but I actually don't care in the slightest - everyone should do whatever makes them happy. As long as that doesn't include clones... Or powered coasters... Or Hydro
1. A single coaster can be massively different in terms of "ride quality" depending on where you sit on the train. The "different experience" argument fails here, each seat should be counted as a different ride experience.
2. If you count clones, then you should count relocated rides. It's all about "the clone is different because of location/theming/build". When you move a coaster, you change all of these things (by moving a coaster, you're altering tiny amounts of the build, therefore making it potentially as different as a clone). I don't count relocated rides, ergo I don't count clones.
3. It means I can walk past a coaster of a type I've been on before and not feel the urge to jump on it "for my count". It's a freedom thing
4. What is the benefit of counting clones? I can see an argument for counting say the Batman clones, but Big Apples? Super Dragons? Zierer Smalls? Pinfari Zbloody40s? Okay, here's the rant:
When you've been on a ride, you've been on it. You have a good idea what the experience is. I know that every Big Apple in the world has a ride experience of "dull as ****". I just don't need to ride any more to cement this as a fact. I knew it the first time I went on one. Why would I want to a) ride any more? b) present multiple ones proudly in a collection? It's just completely pants. I think my coaster count is something like 250 (I honestly can't remember), but without the complete bollocks, it's about 200. That's 200 individual rides. While "I've been on 250 coasters" is a good brag, it means nothing if 50 of those are just complete and utter tosh. My biggest issue is that people are tempted to either push around their coaster count as a reason why they should be respected ("I've been on 150 rides, you've been on 20, I know more about this than you" - the truth is that 100 of those rides are kiddie coasters and trash, but the 20 they're arguing against are world class rides the 150 owner could only dream of going on). It works inversely too, with somebody with a small coaster count perhaps bowing down too eagerly to somebody with a large count when they shouldn't for the previous reason.
The reason I realised this was simply my own count. I hit 100 coasters in 2006 and only 4 were outside of the UK. Something like 25% of my coasters were clones. At the time, CF didn't have too many people with big counts, and 100 was a substantial number. However, I talked on the forums to people with much smaller counts but realised they'd had coaster experiences one hundred fold better than mine. My count was absolutely no indicator of anything, yet everyone took it so seriously.
There are counter arguments though I'm happy to accept.
1) Bollocks to it, it's just fun.
2) I like to keep track of all the coasters I've been on using CoasterCounter (or whatever) and bollocks to it, it's just fun.
3) Riding clones means credit hunts, which means I'm travelling all over the country enjoying myself just to go on another clone. This supports the small parks and adds character to a site like CF. Bollocks to it, it's just fun.
4) When I'm with a group like CF, it's a laugh to go on this crap with others. Bollocks to it, it's just fun.
I'm happy to argue with people over this, but I actually don't care in the slightest - everyone should do whatever makes them happy. As long as that doesn't include clones... Or powered coasters... Or Hydro
nadroJ
CF Legend
^Lol, furie, have you ever seen my CC?
I count relocated coasters, clones, powered coasters, etc. Anything that I consider a rollercoaster goes on there, leading to some things being on there that make people angry (like I care, you know, because my CC is for me, not for any of you **** to scrutinise). I can see why people wouldn't count them but it's not a 'coaster experience count', it's a coaster count, a clone is a separate coaster, therefore I count it separately =].
I count relocated coasters, clones, powered coasters, etc. Anything that I consider a rollercoaster goes on there, leading to some things being on there that make people angry (like I care, you know, because my CC is for me, not for any of you **** to scrutinise). I can see why people wouldn't count them but it's not a 'coaster experience count', it's a coaster count, a clone is a separate coaster, therefore I count it separately =].
nadroJ said:
No, because you don't force it onto people - good girl
(was that patronising enough? I'm not sure, must try harder...)I'd also like to take this opportunity to take Snoo's "Car" analogy to task. A coaster count is more of a collection than a series of experiences. Nobody in the world cares that I've been on 247 buses of the same type out of a total of 6,793 bus journeys. Likewise, nobody cares how many cars you've driven/been in.
We're more like numismatics. It's all about the total number of unique items we have, not the total number of coins in our collection. I have a coin collection of 100 pennies and t pound coins. My coin collection is therefore 102. Yet I actually only have pound coins and pennies. Now, if one of those pound coins was very rare, then you may list it separately "2002 Ian Bell misprint" or whatever. Generally though, the important thing is the number of different items in your collection, not how many of each you have (Bill Gates is not one of the world's biggest numismatics).
So ner
caffeine_demon
Strata Poster
I count whatever I want to count (including alpine coasters and hydro), but it's mainly for my records, rather than a competition!
bizarrofan10
Hyper Poster
I use "CoasterCounter.com" and "coaster-count.com" for my counts because they both have the same definition of what technically counts as a roller coaster.
I count clones for the basic reasons that other people have mentioned; they're physically different rides. Yes, they're the same layout, but they're not the same piece of metal.
I don't count relocations, for the opposite reason; they are the same basic piece of metal that I've already been on.
The "ride experience" aspect of the arguments don't come into it at all for me personally.
Slightly off topic, but for those people who don't count clones (probably just Furie?), would you count a Chinese knock off seperately from the coaster that "inspired" it? For example, the Golden Horse spinners are the exact same thing (as far as I can make out at least) as the Maurer Sohne Compact Spinner Model. Beijing Shibolai's shuttle loops are an exact copy of Meisho's original.
They look and feel exactly the same, but are they really clones if they're from a different manufacturer?
I don't count relocations, for the opposite reason; they are the same basic piece of metal that I've already been on.
The "ride experience" aspect of the arguments don't come into it at all for me personally.
Slightly off topic, but for those people who don't count clones (probably just Furie?), would you count a Chinese knock off seperately from the coaster that "inspired" it? For example, the Golden Horse spinners are the exact same thing (as far as I can make out at least) as the Maurer Sohne Compact Spinner Model. Beijing Shibolai's shuttle loops are an exact copy of Meisho's original.
They look and feel exactly the same, but are they really clones if they're from a different manufacturer?
