Can theming ever be *too* good?

[Nic]

Before you scream "NO!" at your screen, bear with me. Last week, Sue couldn't understand how we'd all been creaming ourselves at Rainbow MagicLand's "fake and tacky" theming, yet were seemingly indifferent to the "excellent quality, realistic" theming at PortAventura. This got me thinking.

You can't argue that the theming at PA isn't excellent. There's loads of it, and it's (nearly) all of a very high quality. So why weren't we all skipping around squealing with delight when we entered the park?

My theory is that it's almost TOO real. It (for the most part) feels genuine and is trying to portray a real environment. It makes you so totally believe that it naturally belongs there that it just kind of blends into the background. Because a lot of the theming at places like Disney (and, yes, Rainbow MagicLand) is portraying a fantasy, that doesn't happen, so you're constantly focussing on how fab it looks. Maybe?

What do you think? Is there such a thing as theming that's TOO realistic, or TOO good?

 

[nadroJ]

I totally get what you mean. My favourite theming is stuff to do with fairytales, like you see at Efteling, Phantasialand and Toverland. Whilst I enjoy the themming for something like...Hurakan Condor, it's not 'imaginary' enough for me to really go wow.

But in saying that, I'd have loved Thorpe to go the whole hog with Swarm Island and model it on a realistic British village complete with Co-op and Post Office, so in that respect I'm actually just talking out of my arse, but I know what you mean.

 

[Mike]

I've always thought one of the best themed parks I've ever been too has been Busch Gardens Williamsburg, exactly because of the reason that it is so realistic and feels like you've been transported to the middle of a European town.

The problem I found with PortAventura was just how generic it all was. It has a huge area brilliantly themed to the wild-west, but you can find wild-west areas in a million theme parks. Or if it's not generic, then I've been spoilt and seen it done better/just as well elsewhere... Expedition Everest vs. Expedition Himalaya anyone?
Sure, PA is a brilliantly themed park, but it just hasn't got the impact that other parks had on me.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Did you read my essay of a blog on realism and Merlin? It's relevant.

http://hajimesthemeparkblog.blogspot.co ... theme.html

I was reading a Disney blog the other day that Plod linked me to, and I came to the realisation whilst reading it that most of the problems the blog found with the theming at Disneyland were examples where the subject objects were... Well, boring things. Exotic, wondrous places never suffer. Which is similar to Nic's point. But as Mike points out, I think a lot of it's down to accessibility and familiarity as well. Bringing the Wild West to Europe was once an interesting, wondrous idea... But we've gotten used to it. So more fantastical, whimsical, silly, over the top themes are now all that's left to wow us? Disney's success is that it brings that stereotype and goes above and beyond it to make it wondrous. They also set the damn stereotypes.

I too was underwhelmed by PAs theming. In a "I know it's good but it doesn't excite me" kinda way. I think it is a mixture of it either choosing boring stereotypes, or simply subjects that are visually dull (Furious Baco, in particular). The vandalism also draws attention away from the craftsmanship and stands out like a sore thumb. Mix that with their atrocious operations, the queue jumping, the mediocre rides and I actually think PA is a pretty dreadful park. I had a really good time when I went, though, but critically I dislike it. Kyle often argues that theming is irrelevant, it's creating a nice environment that's all that matters. Which is why PA still feels "nice". The standard is overall good, the environments enjoyable to be in.

 

[Kebab]

Expedition Everest vs. Expedition Himalaya anyone?.

Thats like comparing Big Thunder Mountain (a family ride heavily reliant on theming) to Millennium Force (a thrill ride aimed towards adrenaline junkies, who would really care about how pretty the theming looks?).

But I do sort of agree with whats been said about PortAventura, I couldn't imagine it without it's fabulous theming though, it almost looks too nice in parts. There's some lovely views you can admire when walking around the park, captured by it's wonderful landscape (View from mediterreanea on the bridge, towards Dragon Khan/Shambhala springs to mind), there almost feels too much for a theme park. It is the best themed park I've been to (ignoring the graffitti and chewing gum), I think Disneyland is too pretty for it's own good on the other hand, but I'm still blown away by everything they do, I think it's because I expected it when I went to Disneyland, whereas PortAventura I was thinking about the rollercoasters over the theming, so I was really surprised.

I also think Alton Towers is just right when theming is concerned, nothing overly-dramatical (Nemesis aside...), mostly natural, plenty of green and it just feels great to walk around the park.

 

[Mike]

Expedition Everest vs. Expedition Himalaya anyone?.

Thats like comparing Big Thunder Mountain (a family ride heavily reliant on theming) to Millennium Force (a thrill ride aimed towards adrenaline junkies, who would really care about how pretty the theming looks?).

Errm, no it isn't?
Both rides are very specifically themed to the south-eastern Asia region, and Shambhala's theming even had Sue swooning about how authentic it looked! That's opposed to your example of Cedar Fair, who are well known to have barely any theming in any of their parks!

I also think Alton Towers is just right when theming is concerned, nothing overly-dramatical (Nemesis aside...), mostly natural, plenty of green and it just feels great to walk around the park.

You should visit Gilroy Gardens. With all the trees and greenery they have it'll soon become your number 1 themed park!

 

[Hyde]

In digital animation, you often hear the term "Uncanny Valley," referring to how as animation progresses towards real life, there is a certain point when animation is too realistic, feeling unnatural and unbelievable. Think about toy story vs polar express. While the polar express is more technologically advanced and has better rendering, the animation is too life like and unnatural. Toy story is fantasy, but the animation is more believable as it does not tread too closely to portraying real human beings.

Let's extrapolate that to park theming. The more you try to directly emulate real life, the harder it is to believe.

 

[Gazza]

I guess the only time I think theming is "too good" is when you see those Chinese parks that build a massive piece of theming on/around/over a flat ride that looks fantastic, except the flat ride is clearly off the shelf with standard carnival lights and a vom colour scheme, rendering the whole effort a waste.

 

[_koppen]

Only thing I could think of is if you are were afraid of something, like snakes. Then a ride that are very well themed to snakes and realistic could be bad for you.

Otherwise, no.

 

[andrus]

The only park that I've been to that has been too much in regards to theming is Phantasialand. Ok, so what's "wrong" with Phantasialand? Well nothing is wrong, it's still an excellent park with excellent theming. It's just that they've soo much prop in such tiny space. It's so much that's it's hard to take it all in. I think they could've been a bit more sparse in the theming and instead invested their money in other attractions. The immense theming also makes it a bit "too" much for me and makes it unrealistic.

Take Port Aventura on the other hand, my favourite park in regards to theming. They're still immense in their theming, but never over the top. And instead of just piling as much prop as possible in a space they're striving for an as realistic environment as possible! And they care not just for theming but are great at landscaping as well! Walking in to the mediterranean area and seeing Dragon Khan in the distance is a magical sight, then when I enter the China area itself and see the chinese wall and the beautiful surroundings I almost feel in love Same goes for rides like Baco etc!

 

[peep]

^I think the difference between PA and Phantasia is purely space. Phantasialand have had to be clever with the way they use space because they don't have a lot of it. I think they try to cram in these larger elements and try unusual pathways etc to help 'explore' areas to give the impression the area is bigger than it is. Port Aventura is more open and spaced out because it has the space to do so. Phantasialand is also just that, a fantasy world, it takes a real World theme but gives it a fantasy makeover, a caricature if you will. Port Aventura tries to create something that looks real. I think Disney lies somewhere between the two depending on the area you compare.


I think you are on to something there Nic. I was pretty blown away by Port Aventura but I think that's more down to personal low expectations. The discussion really does border along Joey's awesome article on the realistic theming elements. I don't think theming can ever be too good though, if the park is trying to convey a real thing with as much accuracy as poss (much like some areas of PA) then I think that's great, if it makes me feel like I've been truly transported to that place then surely the theming has done the job? If you're not totally orgasming over how good the theming is then surely they've succeeded in being amazing?

Time for the controversial comment - Alton Towers is over-rated. Sure it looks nice and there are areas which are nicely themed but there isn't much consistency within each area and it annoys me, they also lack in theming details, but that's Tussauds/Merlin's style - "Let's plonk huge pieces of theming around and hope that satisfies everyone".

 

[marc]

For me pa just seemed straight out of RCT.

The layout was RCT as was the theming.

I liked it was just so generic and nothing to go wow over.

Tbh I was the same with Park Asterix.

All the theming is on the surface but once you clear the stations there is nothing there.

Rainbow Magicland was different as it was not generic, someone thought up ideas from scratch etc.

But not of the parks mentioned them a ride.

I liked phantasia land as the areas were themed and so were the rides.

Don't get me started on Merlin Theming. The best job they have ever done is actually Rattlesnake lol.

 

[furie]

Yeah, I'd go with the "realistic" comes across as bland thing to a degree too. Yet it's more, as has been said, about how you go about it.

PA I think has some incredible theming. Compare it to a lot of parks, and it really is superb. It's really bland though too. I think as Joey says, it's a real contradiction in that you know how much effort has gone into the theming, to produce rich and detailed areas, but you're never wowed by it, or even truly transported to the worlds conveyed.

I think part of the issue is interaction with the rides. Disney are obviously masters of this for the most part. Go into a Disney Western themed area and everything is themed to work with it. Every tiny detail is covered, including the rides. So instead of thinking "I'm standing in a theme park themed to the wild west with some coasters", you think "I'm standing in the wild west".

Busch Williamsberg hit it spot on too a lot of the time (we'll ignore"France"). There are huge areas where it's just theming for the sake of it and the rides are shoved well out of the way so you don't notice them. I don't think Busch or Disney have got it perfect all the time, but they certainly try to envelop you in their themes by being so realistic it's believable. PA never quite went far enough, so while the theming is excellent, it's not taken a step far enough.

China I found really flat and dull with this great looking coaster in it. You ignore the sparse theme because of the huge coaster. Obviously it's changed this year, but I still imagine coming from Condor to the China area, you just ignore the theming.

If you're pushing fantasy then it's in your face and you're looking at the creativity involved in it; the spark of imagination from the artist. So you tend to look at more fantastic theming purely because it's something you've never seen before.

 

[Lofty]

In my opinion, there can never be too much theming. The while point of theming to large extents is to remove you from the mundane and enter you into a fully-immersive area, so you just enjoy the time that you're there and the story that's being conveyed. I think there's such a thing as too realistic, bit it's all based on opinion, if you like realist theming (which I do), you're going to love 'overly' themed areas, if you're more of a fan of say, the Plopsa/Toverland type theming, you're not going to really enjoy it.

 

[bmac]

There is such thing as too much themeing in a six flags park. *points at B:TR New Jersey from 1993-2004* Such a shame all the garbage is gone and the chicken coop looks... well, more like a chicken coop.

On a more serious note I really don't think there can be too much themeing, but there can be bad themeing from an execution standpoint. *points at Water Country USA* I'm on my phone at the moment so I'll try to remember too give a detailed response tonight or something.

 

[madhjsp]

Interesting question. The best themed parks I've visited would have to be Busch Gardens Williamsburg, Universal Orlando, and Busch Gardens Tampa, and I wouldn't say that any of them have theming that's so lifelike that it made no impression on me. They each strike their own balance between realism and fantasy, so you definitely notice the theme, but at the same time, suspension of disbelief is fairly easy.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

suspension of disbelief

I hate this term.

I also hate it when people say theme parks are an "escape".

It's rubbish. A themed environment can never fully convince it's guests to suspend disbelief. It's not possible. The experience of most people is one of appreciation of fakery (the same phenomenon that makes Madame Tussaud's so popular) and the fun of pretending (being an actor amongst the environment). Pretending to believe.

 

[madhjsp]

suspension of disbelief

I hate this term.

I also hate it when people say theme parks are an "escape".

It's rubbish. A themed environment can never fully convince it's guests to suspend disbelief. It's not possible. The experience of most people is one of appreciation of fakery (the same phenomenon that makes Madame Tussaud's so popular) and the fun of pretending (being an actor amongst the environment). Pretending to believe.

Well, sure, there's no park that's actually going to make someone think they have actually been transported to another time and place. I guess I don't really see the difference between "pretending to believe" and "suspending disbelief." Interchangeable terms, if you ask me.. both require a little active imagination on the part of the individual.

 

[Crazycoaster]

I think you might be right, and one example that pops up to me every time is Dinoland USA, in Animal Kingdom. Many people complain about the area, because of its off the shelf rides and tacky themeing, but when looking a bit closer, it's actually really cleverly done, has a complete backstory to it all, and everything was put there by intention.

For people that have been, there is a large tacky 'fair ground' style area, Chester and Hesters (Named after the owners of a local gas station turned soulvenir shop) which has been intentionally created to be like many famous roadside attractions found along many american interstates (largest ball of yarn etc.).

Primeval whirl looks tacky because it is supposed to, it was meant to look 'built on the cheap' (many household items are actually used throughout the theming), as it was all 'built' by a couple looking to make a quick buck off of tourists who were coming to visit the Dino Institute (Dinosaur the ride).

This whole area is the perfect example of it I feel, as a lot of effort went into the creation and backstory, but because it looks cheap, people always disregard it as that.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

^ Yeah, this.

Themed environments have to be really careful with self representation of any kind. Disney have tried it twice that I can think of, with Dinoland USA and with Paradise Pier, and both are deemed pretty unsuccessful.