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Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attractions
- Thread starter Brookes
- Start date
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction
It's not, but it's going to reduce their overheads so it costs them less to run the park each day.
They reduced opening hours and everyone complained so they had to think of some other way to save money.
They tried stopping running monorail/Skyride on off-peak days and everyone complained so they had to think of something else.
This is the next thing; reduced ride operations.
I think the most annoying thing is that the people who have complained are the pass holders who actually bring very little into the park on a day visit. They don't buy the tat, they usually bring their own food (or spend as little as possible) and they don't pay entrance fees. When the do spend money, they get a 20% discount.
People want as much as possible for as little as possible, but a business just can't run that way, it has to be profitable. If it isn't, then they have to cut costs and yes, visitors may be inconvenienced, but tough.
Moaning and complaining really isn't always the best approach. Some times you have to try and understand things from a business perspective rather than "somebody stole my free stuff!".
Thorpe which has twice increased car parking fees and increased entry during this year already. They may not be reducing operations, but they're dragging money back in other ways instead - they have a lot more leeway than Alton too on that front as Alton's parking is already astronomical!
Of course, you and your teenage friends still loving Rumba Rapids?
Brookes said:
It's not, but it's going to reduce their overheads so it costs them less to run the park each day.
They reduced opening hours and everyone complained so they had to think of some other way to save money.
They tried stopping running monorail/Skyride on off-peak days and everyone complained so they had to think of something else.
This is the next thing; reduced ride operations.
I think the most annoying thing is that the people who have complained are the pass holders who actually bring very little into the park on a day visit. They don't buy the tat, they usually bring their own food (or spend as little as possible) and they don't pay entrance fees. When the do spend money, they get a 20% discount.
People want as much as possible for as little as possible, but a business just can't run that way, it has to be profitable. If it isn't, then they have to cut costs and yes, visitors may be inconvenienced, but tough.
Moaning and complaining really isn't always the best approach. Some times you have to try and understand things from a business perspective rather than "somebody stole my free stuff!".
Ethan said:
Thorpe which has twice increased car parking fees and increased entry during this year already. They may not be reducing operations, but they're dragging money back in other ways instead - they have a lot more leeway than Alton too on that front as Alton's parking is already astronomical!
Of course, you and your teenage friends still loving Rumba Rapids?
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction
Yes, people will complain. And eventually they'll say "we can't afford a new ride in 2013 because we haven't made a profit this year". Then everyone will cry about that too.
For the people who actually pay to go to the park for a day out, off-season, they'll get massive value for money, which is what the whining arses don't seem to be able to grasp.
If I go on my 10th AP trip this year (next Wednesday actually
) and I have to walk because the Skyride is closed and the queue finishes at 4:00 p.m. I'll be massively inconvenienced compared to my other 9 visits where... well, I left early because I managed all the rides anyway and never really used the Skyride because it's actually quicker to walk than the queue (especially if you know the park, which after 9 visits in a year we can assume I do).
No, I can be a moaning bitch about it, or I can look at it realistically as "it doesn't actually affect me, especially as I'm quids in on my AP".
Now, if you've paid to get in (let's assume 2-4-1), it's about £20 for your day. It's quiet, you get all the rides done because it's quiet but you don't have the Skyride which you never used because it's your first visit in years/ever and some rides opened late, but that's okay because you spent so much time looking at tat, going to the toilets and squealing about which ride looks scariest. It's still a massive bargain for the day.
Now, on a busy, high season day it's different, but on the days when there isn't enough in ticket sales to run the park, then you just have to make cuts. Luckily, being quiet days, people still have a great day.
Plus, the rapids only ever opens at 11:00 and (apart from air), I'll bet those other rides never have a queue before that time anyway...
Again, spoilt enthusiasts and AP holders making a mountain out of a molehill and causing problems that will impact the parks the profess to love and making them worse in the future, just because they don't want the slightest inconvenience on their (essentially) free day out.
It just winds me up that people are so petty and narrow minded about "having their day ruined" and can't see any kind of bigger picture. I want a new coaster next year, and in a couple of years afterwards, and the only way we're going to get future investment is if the park shows profits. If that means a tiny inconvenience that nobody will really notice, then sod it, go with the minor inconvenience.
Yes, people will complain. And eventually they'll say "we can't afford a new ride in 2013 because we haven't made a profit this year". Then everyone will cry about that too.
For the people who actually pay to go to the park for a day out, off-season, they'll get massive value for money, which is what the whining arses don't seem to be able to grasp.
If I go on my 10th AP trip this year (next Wednesday actually
) and I have to walk because the Skyride is closed and the queue finishes at 4:00 p.m. I'll be massively inconvenienced compared to my other 9 visits where... well, I left early because I managed all the rides anyway and never really used the Skyride because it's actually quicker to walk than the queue (especially if you know the park, which after 9 visits in a year we can assume I do).No, I can be a moaning bitch about it, or I can look at it realistically as "it doesn't actually affect me, especially as I'm quids in on my AP".
Now, if you've paid to get in (let's assume 2-4-1), it's about £20 for your day. It's quiet, you get all the rides done because it's quiet but you don't have the Skyride which you never used because it's your first visit in years/ever and some rides opened late, but that's okay because you spent so much time looking at tat, going to the toilets and squealing about which ride looks scariest. It's still a massive bargain for the day.
Now, on a busy, high season day it's different, but on the days when there isn't enough in ticket sales to run the park, then you just have to make cuts. Luckily, being quiet days, people still have a great day.
Plus, the rapids only ever opens at 11:00 and (apart from air), I'll bet those other rides never have a queue before that time anyway...
Again, spoilt enthusiasts and AP holders making a mountain out of a molehill and causing problems that will impact the parks the profess to love and making them worse in the future, just because they don't want the slightest inconvenience on their (essentially) free day out.
It just winds me up that people are so petty and narrow minded about "having their day ruined" and can't see any kind of bigger picture. I want a new coaster next year, and in a couple of years afterwards, and the only way we're going to get future investment is if the park shows profits. If that means a tiny inconvenience that nobody will really notice, then sod it, go with the minor inconvenience.
ATTACKHAMMER
Strata Poster
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction
Totally agree with Furie. Yes some big rides like air won't open untill 11 but Nemesis, Rita and Oblivion still open at normal time after riding those it will be time for the others to open. Not a big problem really.
Totally agree with Furie. Yes some big rides like air won't open untill 11 but Nemesis, Rita and Oblivion still open at normal time after riding those it will be time for the others to open. Not a big problem really.
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction
Tell you what, you lot are rubbish at arguing. I'll have to start arguing amongst myself I think.
Quite right, and I think that furie is missing a very important point. While it may be that profits are down this year along with visitor numbers, hurting the experience of the guest is completely the wrong way of going about this, especially if you consider the reasons behind the drop off in numbers.
It's true that Alton have been adding attractions each year, so there should be reduced "churn" in visitor numbers, or a stable number of visitors.
The issue, I think, is the poor view of value that a "resort" like Alton Towers has. It's always been a little on the cusp with "long queue times", "increased gate prices" and "high food costs" making it look like a very expensive day out for the average family.
Yes, we know most people use vouchers and the like, but it's a little more than that now. It's the constant attempts to make you reach for your wallet all the time. Every time you look around, somebody is forcing you into a photo opportunity. There are games everywhere and it's a constant push for buy this, get this bargain, spend this money and you can maximise your day. Then finally on top of that, you're stung with an ever increasing parking charge.
I've described it before as "Merlin Fatigue". It's a form of RSI in the hand from constantly opening your wallet, and in your throat from constantly saying "no, we don't want a photo taken". Eventually people stop wanting to go because they feel harassed. It's meant to be a fun day out, but not one that requires a second mortgage.
You only need to look at Drayton Manor Park, also seeing a downturn at the gates alongside a similar Car Park charge and high gate entry price. It's anecdotal, but at least two people at work have asked about Drayton, looked into it and cancelled plans (instead going to free to visit attractions) due to the sheer cost of having a family outing.
You can blame it on the weather, or the "recession", or whatever you like, but constantly trying to milk your guests for cash leaves them bitter and resolved not to return again. In other words you reap what you sow.
So yes, they may need these cost cutting measures, but perhaps a national campaign of "free car parking in July" or "British Summer Madness, ticket prices halved for August" would do more for the park than reduced operations and 2-4-1 vouchers. Make people think they're getting something back for every time they wrote "I hated the high cost of the day" on their feedback form - make it look like you listen to your ex-customers.
Tell you what, you lot are rubbish at arguing. I'll have to start arguing amongst myself I think.
Brookes said:
Quite right, and I think that furie is missing a very important point. While it may be that profits are down this year along with visitor numbers, hurting the experience of the guest is completely the wrong way of going about this, especially if you consider the reasons behind the drop off in numbers.
It's true that Alton have been adding attractions each year, so there should be reduced "churn" in visitor numbers, or a stable number of visitors.
The issue, I think, is the poor view of value that a "resort" like Alton Towers has. It's always been a little on the cusp with "long queue times", "increased gate prices" and "high food costs" making it look like a very expensive day out for the average family.
Yes, we know most people use vouchers and the like, but it's a little more than that now. It's the constant attempts to make you reach for your wallet all the time. Every time you look around, somebody is forcing you into a photo opportunity. There are games everywhere and it's a constant push for buy this, get this bargain, spend this money and you can maximise your day. Then finally on top of that, you're stung with an ever increasing parking charge.
I've described it before as "Merlin Fatigue". It's a form of RSI in the hand from constantly opening your wallet, and in your throat from constantly saying "no, we don't want a photo taken". Eventually people stop wanting to go because they feel harassed. It's meant to be a fun day out, but not one that requires a second mortgage.
You only need to look at Drayton Manor Park, also seeing a downturn at the gates alongside a similar Car Park charge and high gate entry price. It's anecdotal, but at least two people at work have asked about Drayton, looked into it and cancelled plans (instead going to free to visit attractions) due to the sheer cost of having a family outing.
You can blame it on the weather, or the "recession", or whatever you like, but constantly trying to milk your guests for cash leaves them bitter and resolved not to return again. In other words you reap what you sow.
So yes, they may need these cost cutting measures, but perhaps a national campaign of "free car parking in July" or "British Summer Madness, ticket prices halved for August" would do more for the park than reduced operations and 2-4-1 vouchers. Make people think they're getting something back for every time they wrote "I hated the high cost of the day" on their feedback form - make it look like you listen to your ex-customers.
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction
Where are those decisions coming from though? Is it simply that Merlin have a demand on gate entrance, but operation cost is down in the park budget.
So Merlin have an umbrella system for determining ticket cost, vouchers, car park fees, etc. but individual parks look after getting people in through the gates and then paying for the running of things?
It's also a bit wrong to be doing the entire "shutting the door after the horse has bolted" thing too. Okay, so there may be deeper issues, but there has to be an immediate cost saving reaction to try and get things back on track. That's simple maths you can rely on.
1. 100 guests in the park at £20 each.
2. Operating all rides for 10 hours is £4,000
3. Each guest spends £10 each on additions in the day
4. 100 x £20 + 100 x £10 = £3,000
5. Net loss per quiet day = £1,000
Now, you have absolutely no way of guaranteeing that you can increase the number of guests by enough to make a profit, so you have to cut your overheads. That really is the only option available, you have to assume that no matter what you do, you're never going to get more than the average number of guests you have been getting. It's simply a business covering its arse.
So you reduce the operating hours so that at least you're breaking even. Then if you do get any extra guests, they increase profit. Right now, if people feel bad about the park or not and don't want to return is not the operating concern of the business. That's for the big-wigs and marketing to deal with when this crisis is over.
In the mean time, you have staff on reduced hours, or being let go and the company is teetering on the edge of oblivion. Nobody is benefiting from these reduced hours except maybe the future of the park.
furie said:
Where are those decisions coming from though? Is it simply that Merlin have a demand on gate entrance, but operation cost is down in the park budget.
So Merlin have an umbrella system for determining ticket cost, vouchers, car park fees, etc. but individual parks look after getting people in through the gates and then paying for the running of things?
It's also a bit wrong to be doing the entire "shutting the door after the horse has bolted" thing too. Okay, so there may be deeper issues, but there has to be an immediate cost saving reaction to try and get things back on track. That's simple maths you can rely on.
1. 100 guests in the park at £20 each.
2. Operating all rides for 10 hours is £4,000
3. Each guest spends £10 each on additions in the day
4. 100 x £20 + 100 x £10 = £3,000
5. Net loss per quiet day = £1,000
Now, you have absolutely no way of guaranteeing that you can increase the number of guests by enough to make a profit, so you have to cut your overheads. That really is the only option available, you have to assume that no matter what you do, you're never going to get more than the average number of guests you have been getting. It's simply a business covering its arse.
So you reduce the operating hours so that at least you're breaking even. Then if you do get any extra guests, they increase profit. Right now, if people feel bad about the park or not and don't want to return is not the operating concern of the business. That's for the big-wigs and marketing to deal with when this crisis is over.
In the mean time, you have staff on reduced hours, or being let go and the company is teetering on the edge of oblivion. Nobody is benefiting from these reduced hours except maybe the future of the park.
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction
Yes, but that relies on accepting that the park is doing this to save money and continue operating, when we actually know it's pure greed because Merlin are making massive profits. If you're greedy, then you lose custom and tough ****.
furie said:
Yes, but that relies on accepting that the park is doing this to save money and continue operating, when we actually know it's pure greed because Merlin are making massive profits. If you're greedy, then you lose custom and tough ****.
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction
Have you seen the financial accounts for Alton Towers 2011, or the current running operating figures? No!
Have you seen the financial accounts of Merlin to see how much profit the theme park side of the business brings in to the group? No.
Do you actually know for sure that this is anything other than the obvious emergency measure that it is? No.
In that case, you're an idiot for even bringing it up.
furie said:
Have you seen the financial accounts for Alton Towers 2011, or the current running operating figures? No!
Have you seen the financial accounts of Merlin to see how much profit the theme park side of the business brings in to the group? No.
Do you actually know for sure that this is anything other than the obvious emergency measure that it is? No.
In that case, you're an idiot for even bringing it up.
ATTACKHAMMER
Strata Poster
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction
Good idea. There were some good points raised in his agruement though.
Ethan said:... I think he's insane. We should probably avoid this thread for a while
Good idea. There were some good points raised in his agruement though.
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction
Annoying.
Delaying opening because a ride is at the back of the park/low on capacity in the morning is one thing, but not opening because you cannot run your park properly show a lack of ability.
a.k.a. If your job is to offer attractions for people to ride, and you don't, then you're not doing your job.
Annoying.
Delaying opening because a ride is at the back of the park/low on capacity in the morning is one thing, but not opening because you cannot run your park properly show a lack of ability.
a.k.a. If your job is to offer attractions for people to ride, and you don't, then you're not doing your job.
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction
Haha furie you're a hero. I'd like to discuss a few points further though. I think this whole argument has two main points: firstly why Alton's attendance figures are down in the first place; and how they have gone about saving money as a result.
So yes they have opened new rides this year in the form of Sub-Terra and Ice Age and I think Alton have made a good progression of development in bringing new rides in the past few years. But as we all know the marketing has been questionable. It's ok saying we're opening new attractions, but that's not necessarily enough.
Take Sub-Terra, I personally think it's a good ride and look forward to riding the new updated version, but a lot of people won't get it and it won't make them make a trip there this year. A friend of mine went the other day and sent me a text saying: "Wtf is nemesis sub terra?". I asked him what he thought of it and he said "It's just weird and crap". One person's opinion yes, but from the start the whole thing wasn't put together well and most people don't have a clue what's going on. They just want another Nemesis.
Granted they aren't going to get a new coaster every year, and I love their attempts to create the type of ride they did but when they aren't getting anything new you have to give people another reason to come back - those people as furie says who come and spend. Now how you achieve this there isn't one right solution, but one thing it is key to do is treat your customers well.
So say this proposal actually goes ahead and these rides are on reduced operating hours, when will the average person find out Air isn't open until 11? I'd say it's pretty darn likely it'll be at about 5 past 10 when they run to Air excited to ride and get to the entrance to see: "This ride isn't open until 11 o'clock".
In my opinion it's all about compromise. Yes they may need to reduce their overhead costs but their proposal of closing the SkyRide was just ludicrous in the health and safety mad world we now live in. Reduced opening times of the whole park is ok if you actually give people enough time to get there and enjoy their day. Their latest try - the one this topic is about - is problematic for me for one reason; they've blatantly picked rides with highest running cost despite the inconvenience to people. I know furie you say that we should just put by this inconvenience but it's unnecessary.
I'm sure people would have less of a problem if just one area of the park wasn't open until 11, then as someone put on the page before you wouldn't have to trawl from Forbidden Valley to Dark Forest then to X-Sector before being able to ride Air. But they've gone for the biggest reduction they can without thinking about their customers at all. I'm sure you'll agree, being someone who visits a lot like myself, the busiest ride at 10 o'clock is either Air or Thirteen, of which neither will now be open at that time.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this is u-turned just like the other things have been after enough people have complained on Facebook. Is it good for the park though? No. They should stick by their decisions, but these decisions should be made with the customer and the future of the park in mind, not just the latter.
Haha furie you're a hero. I'd like to discuss a few points further though. I think this whole argument has two main points: firstly why Alton's attendance figures are down in the first place; and how they have gone about saving money as a result.
So yes they have opened new rides this year in the form of Sub-Terra and Ice Age and I think Alton have made a good progression of development in bringing new rides in the past few years. But as we all know the marketing has been questionable. It's ok saying we're opening new attractions, but that's not necessarily enough.
Take Sub-Terra, I personally think it's a good ride and look forward to riding the new updated version, but a lot of people won't get it and it won't make them make a trip there this year. A friend of mine went the other day and sent me a text saying: "Wtf is nemesis sub terra?". I asked him what he thought of it and he said "It's just weird and crap". One person's opinion yes, but from the start the whole thing wasn't put together well and most people don't have a clue what's going on. They just want another Nemesis.
Granted they aren't going to get a new coaster every year, and I love their attempts to create the type of ride they did but when they aren't getting anything new you have to give people another reason to come back - those people as furie says who come and spend. Now how you achieve this there isn't one right solution, but one thing it is key to do is treat your customers well.
So say this proposal actually goes ahead and these rides are on reduced operating hours, when will the average person find out Air isn't open until 11? I'd say it's pretty darn likely it'll be at about 5 past 10 when they run to Air excited to ride and get to the entrance to see: "This ride isn't open until 11 o'clock".
In my opinion it's all about compromise. Yes they may need to reduce their overhead costs but their proposal of closing the SkyRide was just ludicrous in the health and safety mad world we now live in. Reduced opening times of the whole park is ok if you actually give people enough time to get there and enjoy their day. Their latest try - the one this topic is about - is problematic for me for one reason; they've blatantly picked rides with highest running cost despite the inconvenience to people. I know furie you say that we should just put by this inconvenience but it's unnecessary.
I'm sure people would have less of a problem if just one area of the park wasn't open until 11, then as someone put on the page before you wouldn't have to trawl from Forbidden Valley to Dark Forest then to X-Sector before being able to ride Air. But they've gone for the biggest reduction they can without thinking about their customers at all. I'm sure you'll agree, being someone who visits a lot like myself, the busiest ride at 10 o'clock is either Air or Thirteen, of which neither will now be open at that time.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this is u-turned just like the other things have been after enough people have complained on Facebook. Is it good for the park though? No. They should stick by their decisions, but these decisions should be made with the customer and the future of the park in mind, not just the latter.