What's new
FORUMS - COASTERFORCE

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Support UK Theme Parks this year...

Nicky Borrill

Strata Poster
So, we've been discussing the challenges faced by small UK parks this year for months on here. Sadly, we've already lost 3 in the last 5 months... I'd go further though, I don't think the challenges are unique to small parks, some big parks are going to struggle too, and they'll always be quickest to swing the axe if things are looking bad!!!

Therefore it's nice to see Andy Hine going very public with the challenges and a little rallying call...


As nice as it is to travel abroad and visit new parks, OUR UK PARKS NEED US!

Would it be a good idea to set up a 2025 UK CF campaign / challenge? Maybe something like League of Goons, but to visit as many different UK parks as possible this season? Would anybody else be interested in taking part?

I'm worried, if you've been unfortunate enough to come across any of my drivel in the last few months, you'll know just how worried. But every little helps as they say. :)

(P.s those of you on here with social media followings can really play a big part in helping this year, get pushing those UK parks!!!)
 
Do I really have to go to M&D's? I've managed to avoid it this far!

Maybe we could get a group together and see how many different parks we can hit over a weekend or something?
 
Do I really have to go to M&D's? I've managed to avoid it this far!

Maybe we could get a group together and see how many different parks we can hit over a weekend or something?
I'd be well up for that.

I'm ashamed to say there's still parks in the UK I've never visited, M&D's being one of them. But other notable ones too... And even more that I haven't been to for 10 or 15+ years :/ (I'm part of the problem, that changes this year!)
 
There's a lot of tat around the country I've never made it to. Much are a hassle to get to (especially with trains and buses) and no fun alone. I'm up for group visits if any occur.
 
It goes without saying that those who consider themselves "influencers" should use their platform to promote and encourage. I hate the term "influencer", but I'm proud that CF plays a part in this as a "reporter" with park visits, Lives and attending events and press invites. There's a also a duty on every goon to do their bit and spread positivity about parks amongst family, friends and colleagues.

But oddly enough, I don't think the onus should solely be on park guests. It should mainly be on the parks. I know parks promote through advertising, events and offers but they need to make sure that guest experience comes out on top. Let's not be too rose-tinted about Oakwood - the operations and investments in recent years were not inspiring. I don't think I can recall any exceptional positive feedback in the past decade. How many of us have whinged about a trip to Thorpe with ride break downs and tatty queue lines, the atmosphere during the travellers days at Alton, the throughput at Flamingoland, or the lack of ride availability at Blackpool? I get that **** happens, but some of these things are avoidable, and seems a world away from the slick customer service I've typically experienced at some USA and European parks. They are not without fault either (look at Spanish operations for example!), but I feel there's a more of a "meh" intendency with some UK parks.

Here comes the predicable "Ian loves Paultons" part. I once asked them why they don't do offers and why their entry costs are high. Their answer was to maintain a high level of positive customer experience. By not cheapening the entry price, the queues inside are likely to be minimal. This means more people will ride more rides and fewer people are impatiently waiting in line. If a guest feels like they have got value for money , they will walk away feeling great about the park, and will get highly rated on Tripadvisor, social media and the like. Pay a bit more for a quality day out and you won't feel ripped off. I'm not saying increased entry costs is the answer, but feeling value certainly is. Additionally, Paultons are running another Super Fans Day this May which is geared around goons. Last year was great - backstage tours, ERTs, food, a Q&A sesh. Another example of respecting a section of their customer base.

Sorry, my longest ramble for a while, and I love the idea of rallying around to support UK parks, specifically the "smaller" ones, but the parks need to play their part foremost. CF has organised events with other groups - the Alton Corkscrew send off, a RCCGB/CF day at Paultons, a joint Blackpool trip with PBE (as it as was back then) to name a few - so anything is possible and I'm happy to chat to other group leaders or park managers if they read this...
 
It goes without saying that those who consider themselves "influencers" should use their platform to promote and encourage. I hate the term "influencer", but I'm proud that CF plays a part in this as a "reporter" with park visits, Lives and attending events and press invites. There's a also a duty on every goon to do their bit and spread positivity about parks amongst family, friends and colleagues.

But oddly enough, I don't think the onus should solely be on park guests. It should mainly be on the parks. I know parks promote through advertising, events and offers but they need to make sure that guest experience comes out on top. Let's not be too rose-tinted about Oakwood - the operations and investments in recent years were not inspiring. I don't think I can recall any exceptional positive feedback in the past decade. How many of us have whinged about a trip to Thorpe with ride break downs and tatty queue lines, the atmosphere during the travellers days at Alton, the throughput at Flamingoland, or the lack of ride availability at Blackpool? I get that **** happens, but some of these things are avoidable, and seems a world away from the slick customer service I've typically experienced at some USA and European parks. They are not without fault either (look at Spanish operations for example!), but I feel there's a more of a "meh" intendency with some UK parks.

Here comes the predicable "Ian loves Paultons" part. I once asked them why they don't do offers and why their entry costs are high. Their answer was to maintain a high level of positive customer experience. By not cheapening the entry price, the queues inside are likely to be minimal. This means more people will ride more rides and fewer people are impatiently waiting in line. If a guest feels like they have got value for money , they will walk away feeling great about the park, and will get highly rated on Tripadvisor, social media and the like. Pay a bit more for a quality day out and you won't feel ripped off. I'm not saying increased entry costs is the answer, but feeling value certainly is. Additionally, Paultons are running another Super Fans Day this May which is geared around goons. Last year was great - backstage tours, ERTs, food, a Q&A sesh. Another example of respecting a section of their customer base.

Sorry, my longest ramble for a while, and I love the idea of rallying around to support UK parks, specifically the "smaller" ones, but the parks need to play their part foremost. CF has organised events with other groups - the Alton Corkscrew send off, a RCCGB/CF day at Paultons, a joint Blackpool trip with PBE (as it as was back then) to name a few - so anything is possible and I'm happy to chat to other group leaders or park managers if they read this...
This is such an important thing to point out. And part of the problem. But I don't think that it is just down to the parks, public expectations on pricing is skewed now.

All I'm seeing in the comment sections, of these articles and videos on UK theme parks, is people saying they're too expensive. Think about that for a minute, articles covering the fact parks are losing millions, and the public response is, "they're too expensive." I've seen Alton Towers and Thorpe Park singled out in these comments numerous times, and yet, they're cheaper than Paulton's. I love Paulton's, I really do, it's very well run, and I do feel I get very good value for money. But I do not feel like I get more value for money there than I do at Towers or Thorpe, as a thrill seeker. So why are these big parks still chasing the visitor numbers instead of pricing themselves at a sustainable price? Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity. The bigger parks are not charging enough. This leaves the smaller parks having to compete on prices too. Drayton Manor can't suddenly charge £40 per person, when that puts them in direct competition with Alton Towers up the road. Drayton Manor is just £27.50 per person in the main season. It's £14 to go watch a bloody movie for 2 hours these days. (And then you need a mortgage for popcorn, ffs.)

They've dug themselves into a hole though. If they suddenly increased prices significantly now, there would be no instant improvement to the experience, as those things would take time. So guests, quite rightly, would feel like they're getting less value for money. Meanwhile, there isn't the money floating around to vastly improve guest experience first and then increase prices. It's a bit of a catch 22.

Paulton's is absolutely the model, you're right to point that out. (I did, in a previous post on the Merlin thread, I think it was.) But I just don't see how the more established parks can get there now, I don't know what the answer is, without the money to invest.

The only hope I see, is that this potential global war thing never materialises, economies stabilise, energy prices come down, and the parks that have survived the next year or two can push on. Good news on that front is that we just redid our own business energy contracts. Gas came down, but electricity prices have dropped significantly! From 32ish pence per kWh, down to 20 pence per kWh, less at night. That is huge for us, a saving of over £1000 a month in the summer, £1500 in the winter, and we're just a pub, imagine how much a park spends. If contracts are up for some of these parks in the next year too, there's a much needed glimmer of hope. 🤞

Hence, let's just do our little bit to try and help UK parks this year, we can't really have much impact, but anything will help. Especially if influencers really get onboard and start pushing positivity around UK parks, and avoid the negativity and moaning as much as possible.

EDITED TO ADD: By the way, go on to Paulton's tripadvisor and look through the 1 stars and 2 stars, most are about pricing or access policies. So even they're not immune to the ridiculous public expectation on pricing.
 
The bigger parks are not charging enough. This leaves the smaller parks having to compete on prices too. Drayton Manor can't suddenly charge £40 per person, when that puts them in direct competition with Alton Towers up the road. Drayton Manor is just £27.50 per person in the main season. It's £14 to go watch a bloody movie for 2 hours these days. (And then you need a mortgage for popcorn, ffs.)
I suspect this situation suits Merlin quite well, they're in such a dominant position that they can effectively set the prices of their competition. You'd think given the recent inflationary cycle we went through that Merlin's prices would be a good bit higher than they were, from what I can tell they're very similar. Admittedly my memory is pretty hazy here, but I would have thought that the last few years would be a golden opportunity to increase prices. Most people would've just grumbled about how everything is more expensive and then gotten used to it.
 
I suspect this situation suits Merlin quite well, they're in such a dominant position that they can effectively set the prices of their competition. You'd think given the recent inflationary cycle we went through that Merlin's prices would be a good bit higher than they were, from what I can tell they're very similar. Admittedly my memory is pretty hazy here, but I would have thought that the last few years would be a golden opportunity to increase prices. Most people would've just grumbled about how everything is more expensive and then gotten used to it.
I think you're spot on, compared to the way things have risen since 2019, energy 110%, minimum wage 69.45% (for 18-20) amongst other things, their prices have hardly risen at all. And yet, they're making cuts across the board, letting entertainment teams go, selling off sections of their business, letting general maintenance and ride reliability get away from them, so they don't appear to be immune to the current situation. Perhaps you're also right that it suits them,. Maybe, they're keeping prices low, to keep the pressure on others, knowing they have the size to get them through the storm. :/ but that's a bit tinfoil hat, isn't it? 🤷‍♂️
 
I think you're spot on, compared to the way things have risen since 2019, energy 110%, minimum wage 69.45% (for 18-20) amongst other things, their prices have hardly risen at all. And yet, they're making cuts across the board, letting entertainment teams go, selling off sections of their business, letting general maintenance and ride reliability get away from them, so they don't appear to be immune to the current situation. Perhaps you're also right that it suits them,. Maybe, they're keeping prices low, to keep the pressure on others, knowing they have the size to get them through the storm. :/ but that's a bit tinfoil hat, isn't it? 🤷‍♂️
Businesses do engage in anticompetitive practices - it's certainly not a lizardman level of conspiracy theory, but there are other possible explanations so I wouldn't say I fully endorse the idea, it was just a thought that occurred to me. Management could be overestimating how price sensitive the public are while underestimating how much they would respond to a higher quality experience. There is also the possibility (shocking I know) that Merlin knows more than us and that the public are indeed that price sensitive and they need to keep prices low to make everything add up.

Perhaps a more charitable explanation is this: Merlin doesn't have to make large and risky investments because of their market dominance, because of this risk aversion they've prioritised other ways to get guests through the gates like cheaper prices. A desire to lower prices often leads to cutting costs which has over time degraded the attraction experience. As you previously mentioned they might feel unable to charge more without an increase in quality, but to do this they would need to change strategies to a riskier (but potentially more profitable) one. A negative side-effect to the larger UK market is that their competitors are forced into lower prices, which also forces them into stagnation. This side-effect also reinforces the status quo as Merlin's position as market leader is maintained despite declining quality.

I also suspect that there are other inputs into their risk aversion. The Swarm famously didn't boost attendance, it's pretty easy to connect the dots from that to having to wait 12 years for another roller coaster at Thorpe. That also provides some hope though, with Hyperia offering something genuinely world class maybe that will translate into some nice attendance numbers. That might convince Merlin that some bigger investments are worth making.

Edit: The problem remains though: Merlin has too much influence on the UK market whether deliberate or not.
 
Last edited:
Businesses do engage in anticompetitive practices - it's certainly not a lizardman level of conspiracy theory, but there are other possible explanations so I wouldn't say I fully endorse the idea, it was just a thought that occurred to me. Management could be overestimating how price sensitive the public are while underestimating how much they would respond to a higher quality experience. There is also the possibility (shocking I know) that Merlin knows more than us and that the public are indeed that price sensitive and they need to keep prices low to make everything add up.

Perhaps a more charitable explanation is this: Merlin doesn't have to make large and risky investments because of their market dominance, because of this risk aversion they've prioritised other ways to get guests through the gates like cheaper prices. A desire to lower prices often leads to cutting costs which has over time degraded the attraction experience. As you previously mentioned they might feel unable to charge more without an increase in quality, but to do this they would need to change strategies to a riskier (but potentially more profitable) one. A negative side-effect to the larger UK market is that their competitors are forced into lower prices, which also forces them into stagnation. This side-effect also reinforces the status quo as Merlin's position as market leader is maintained despite declining quality.

I also suspect that there are other inputs into their risk aversion. The Swarm famously didn't boost attendance, it's pretty easy to connect the dots from that to having to wait 12 years for another roller coaster at Thorpe. That also provides some hope though, with Hyperia offering something genuinely world class maybe that will translate into some nice attendance numbers. That might convince Merlin that some bigger investments are worth making.
I present, the brand new Merlin Mascot... 🤣

Seriously though, great post, well written and I think may sum up the situation with Merlin pretty well. What you've described is what I believe they call 'a race to the bottom.' And I'm no expert, but I believe historically, in the long run, that kind of race to the bottom has never ended well for any industry or their consumers.
What Is the Race to the Bottom?

The race to the bottom refers to a competitive situation where a company, state, or nation attempts to undercut the competition's prices by sacrificing quality standards or worker safety (often defying regulation), or reducing labor costs. A race to the bottom can also be between governments to attract industry or tax revenues. For example, a jurisdiction may relax regulations or cut taxes and compromise the public good in an attempt to attract investment, such as the building of a new factory or corporate office.

Although there are legitimate ways to compete for business and investment dollars, the term race to the bottom is used to characterize unhinged tit-for-tat competition that has crossed ethical lines and could be destructive for the parties involved.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/race-bottom.asp

The Swarm is an interesting thought, but it wasn't just Swarm in 12 years remember, Ghost Train cost as much as a decent coaster, and over it's life, and numerous reskins, has possibly even ended up costing more than Hyperia, I would imagine. Then there was other investments like Walking Dead, but on the whole, you're right, investment was very slow at Thorpe. Which is odd, because of all the parks, given the catchment, and transport links, it may have the most growth potential of them all. On the other hand, Wickerman lit the fuse for Alton Towers' post 2015 recovery. They seemed willing to invest on the back of it too, Nemmie 2.0 is essentially a whole new coaster (it probably cost as much,) duel refurb, hex refurb, skyride refurb, sub terra refurb, new flat, new kids bits including a dark ride and don't forget the temporary flats. On top of this they 'were' also planning Horizon. It's not like they've done nothing at Towers. All of this in just 7 years, with a global pandemic thrown in for good measure. So, any perceived lack of investment over the last few years hasn't really concerned me at all, because I see it differently. What has worried me is the movements behind the scenes much more recently, the cancellation / delay of Horizon, last year's maintenance issues, letting staff go, selling assets off, etc. It's more these kinds of movements that make me think they may be in a little trouble, or if not in trouble, at least 'concerned' and 'cautious' about the future.
 
Perhaps a more charitable explanation is this: Merlin doesn't have to make large and risky investments because of their market dominance, because of this risk aversion they've prioritised other ways to get guests through the gates like cheaper prices. A desire to lower prices often leads to cutting costs which has over time degraded the attraction experience. As you previously mentioned they might feel unable to charge more without an increase in quality, but to do this they would need to change strategies to a riskier (but potentially more profitable) one. A negative side-effect to the larger UK market is that their competitors are forced into lower prices, which also forces them into stagnation. This side-effect also reinforces the status quo as Merlin's position as market leader is maintained despite declining quality.

Yep, I think you've hit the nail on the head there. It all goes back to that old chestnut - "Does Merlin have a monopoly?" Near enough, I'd say - it did, anyway...

Anyway, I'm all for this scheme. I'd even go further and say we should embrace all that our regions offer, because it was better when almost every seaside had a big coaster. Merlin has its own issues, but for a very long time it's effectively been the only choice. I think there are three main problems with the smaller UK parks:

Lack of investment (to state the obvious). If you go 10 years without visiting Paultons, you'll have a lot of catch up on. Other parks, not so much...

Not applying the "Would most people want to ride this?" test. The small parks can never have everything, so it's better if they keep it broad and simple, rather than being tempted by the more gimmicky things.

Tinkering around the edges. This is the one that winds me up the most, actually, because money does get spent, just not very effectively. Small parks often spend all their money on rethemes and refurbishments. It seems a big deal to them, but it's not going to bring in new customers.

As I say though, good idea, hope it works.
 
Last edited:
I like this idea!

Outside of the Merlin bubble, I myself am already headed to Blackpool Pleasure Beach at the end of April for my first visit in almost 6 years, which I'm excited about! At some point over the summer, I'm also mulling a trip to Barry Island Pleasure Park to tick off some other low-hanging cred fruit locally; it's only a 30 minute train ride from the railway station I commute to daily for university, yet I've never been!

Depending on how time and money is looking, I'm wondering if I should also tick off another of those East Coast UK parks I've never been to. I did the main duo of parks in East Anglia last year, but in terms of semi-major parks, I still haven't done Fantasy Island, Adventure Island or Dreamland Margate, with FI probably being the most noteworthy of those... should I finally make the trek to Skegness and tick off Odyssey and Millennium in 2025?
 
I like this idea!

Outside of the Merlin bubble, I myself am already headed to Blackpool Pleasure Beach at the end of April for my first visit in almost 6 years, which I'm excited about! At some point over the summer, I'm also mulling a trip to Barry Island Pleasure Park to tick off some other low-hanging cred fruit locally; it's only a 30 minute train ride from the railway station I commute to daily for university, yet I've never been!

Depending on how time and money is looking, I'm wondering if I should also tick off another of those East Coast UK parks I've never been to. I did the main duo of parks in East Anglia last year, but in terms of semi-major parks, I still haven't done Fantasy Island, Adventure Island or Dreamland Margate, with FI probably being the most noteworthy of those... should I finally make the trek to Skegness and tick off Odyssey and Millennium in 2025?
That's awesome, it'll be a month or so before I get started, due to health reasons, but planning to do BPB, Flamingoland, Pleasurewood Hills and Gt. Yarmouth Pleasure Beach.

Apart from BPB, all places I haven't visited for years and years. (I don't actually have Sik!!!) But they're all parks I'd be gutted to lose.

I think I've been to Drayton Manor once in the last 6 years, so I'm gonna make a few visits to there this year too (it's not much further to drive than Towers!)

EDIT: Oh in answer to your last question, you're that little bit older now, so if you're comfortable with it, go for it. It's chav central sometimes, but you can ignore all of that. I hope I can get out there this year (although I don't see why they'd struggle, they should be one of those that do better when the economy struggles, as more people pick UK holidays at places like Butlins. I guess they still have the same issue in terms of rising costs.)
 
This is a cool idea - I've not done most of the eastern parks either, except for Great Yarmouth over 20 years ago. I am definitely going to try to get Fantasy Island in this year as it's the got the most major thrill coasters I am missing.

I would love to do Paultons as I've not yet been but I was holding off until they open their new one next year. It's possible I may go anyway but we'll see. Would be a good cred run since I'm less than 20 away from getting to 100!

I don't think the scenic railway has reopened at Margate yet so I won't look into doing that. The problem is in this country you quickly run out of major parks and end up having to go to small seaside areas to mop up a Pinfari or something. I mean yes there's Adventure Island as well, but that would be like 3 and a half hours for a eurofighter.

Parks need to offer better experiences. In this country we have this thing I like to call "English mediocrity" where nobody gives a **** about doing anything well, only doing the bare minimum. Look at how bad Alton Towers was last year (and apparently opening day this year was **** too), look at how Flamingoland is a **** hole, look at how most of the parks get no investment for years and years. I really hope Universal can change this but I doubt it - it would just be an outlier. Our parks don't really care about offering great customer experiences, just bleeding us dry. But that's another thing about this country overall as well, everyone is trying to fleece you...
 
Well, thanks to @Rollercoaster David I kicked off my season today. Went to towers just to film and ended up doing a few coasters and other rides. They've clearly put last weekend behind them, because other than Corner Coffee being the slowest I've ever seen it, and all of the queue signs reading closed when the rides were open, everything was great.

@Ian Is there a super fans event this year?
 
Went to West Midlands Safari Park yesterday.

What a fantastic day out. Genuinely, had a great time, so much to do. Food was really nice, £15 a meal including drink for a good quality, and massive, spicy beef burger with cajun fries. All in all, tickets and ride wristbands cost only £26!!! What a bargain.
 
FI probably being the most noteworthy of those... should I finally make the trek to Skegness and tick off Odyssey and Millennium in 2025?

Yes, you should!! It's such a bizarre place, extremely entertaining - nowhere else like it. The indoor pyramid is great with some surprisingly decent atmospheric theming and unique, kitschy dark rides.

Both of the coasters are good and proper credits that are worth getting. Odyssey is a beast - personally I would be VERY sad if that one wasn't around any more, though I may be in the minority of enthusiasts on that one...!
 
Yes, you should!! It's such a bizarre place, extremely entertaining - nowhere else like it. The indoor pyramid is great with some surprisingly decent atmospheric theming and unique, kitschy dark rides.

Both of the coasters are good and proper credits that are worth getting. Odyssey is a beast - personally I would be VERY sad if that one wasn't around any more, though I may be in the minority of enthusiasts on that one...!
I'm with you, for sure. As much as I tried to persuade Matt to be wary travelling there alone when he was younger and much more inexperienced at travelling alone. I do like the place, especially since it was taken over. they've done a great job so far. It was more 'some' of the clientele he needed to be wary of, as a very young lad, alone.
 
Need to get to Blackpool as often as possible this year.

Their accounts were just released, and as suspected when I spotted changes to directors a few weeks ago, they don't make pretty reading. They lost £2.8 million in the year to 23/24 year to March 2024. That's after losing £800k the year before. And I can't see the 24/25 year having been any better. On that they say "Trading in the current year has been extremely difficult due to many external factors beyond our control." but we won't find out about the most recent year until March 2026.

Their payroll expenses rose from £12.4 million in 22/23 to £14.5 million 23/24, despite reducing / restricting ride operating hours with rolling closures. Again, that could have gotten worse in the last year, we'll find out. It will certainly get much worse in the coming year, despite the actions they say they're taking, in closing rides for the season. They mention energy prices, which, as I pointed out a few weeks ago, they acknowledge are easing, but still remain high for them overall.

I think Blackpool Pleasure Beach have a strong foundation, so they'll get through it, but we shouldn't take anything for granted. They NEED a good year or two.

Here's their accounts if anybody is interested...

***LINK BECAME INVALID (Just check companies house, it's a public register.)
 
Last edited:
I'm with you, for sure. As much as I tried to persuade Matt to be wary travelling there alone when he was younger and much more inexperienced at travelling alone. I do like the place, especially since it was taken over. they've done a great job so far. It was more 'some' of the clientele he needed to be wary of, as a very young lad, alone.

Oh, right! I mean, it's a bit of a strange crowd to be sure... we were there on a summer weekday and didn't see any trouble. I heard things can get a bit interesting in Ingoldmells after dark though.
 
Back
Top