[Speculation] Canada Wonderland B&M Invert

[Hyde]

This is a sheer speculation topic with no backing of rumor or actual fact, brought on by a recent Screamscape post:

This is all just speculation, but I found the information compelling enough to share after a reader shared this with me. The overall thought is that the theme of each of the latest coasters added to the lineup of Canada's Wonderland have been single pieces of a larger themed set of themed apocalypse monsters with biblical origins.
The bible itself (in Job) mentions Behemoth first (Job 40) and then Leviathan (Job 41). Other Jewish based writings about the creatures label Behemoth as a primal monster of the earth and label Leviathan as the primal force of the seas. There is a third creature said to be the primal force of the air and sky named "Ziz". I find it interesting that the rumors surrounding the next big coaster for Canada's Wonderland are focused on either a large scale Inverted coaster design... (or possibly a Flyer) which would fit in perfectly if they were to name it Ziz. Or at least that is a theory that is starting to go around... so stay tuned!

Outside of the naming speculation, a B&M invert or flyer would make a lot of sense for Canada's Wonderland. The park only has second tier inverting rides (Zamperla Volare, Vekoma SLC, Arrow Looper), and a large, heavy-weight inverting B&M would certainly be becoming of North America's most attended seasonal amusement park. B&M Inverts especially are a slam dunk in terms of popularity, reliability, and longevity. At Cedar Point alone, Raptor has remained a constant top 3 ridership staple year over year.

 

[Ben]

As long as it's better than Banshee I'm game.

A Flyer would be the dream, but an Invert would be a very sensible choice.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Well, if they've got both Behemoth and Leviathan down, they might as well complete the trio. The term "Ziz" isn't as well known, though, it isn't as ingrained in language as the former two, so I wouldn't blame the park if they decided to settle for another theme instead.

Assuming they decide to go through with Ziz, Flyers and Inverts are both well suited to represent huge creatures of the air, though I think a WingRider would work equally well. Canada's Wonderland already has a Flying coaster and two Inverts, too. If we're to go purely by lineup-hole-filling, CW is more ripe for a multi-looping launcher or a modern woodie than more Flyers or Inverts.

On the other hand, though, neither of the existing Inverts or Flyers could be classified as signature rides by any means, and they're all more than a decade old. As long as it's done well, I don't think anybody would blame CW for adding a fifth coaster where riders are suspended below the track. I don't think anybody has ever said the words "They shouldn't build a big Flyer, they've got a perfectly fine Zamperla Volare already", or "What do they need a B&M Invert for, when they already have a mid-1990s Vekoma SLC?"

I'm still reluctant to abandon the idea of a WingRider, but I could see an Invert or a Flyer be equally plausible, and almost equally high in demand. And after all, this was the park that purchased a B&M Giga just a couple years after building a B&M Hyper. It wouldn't be the first time if they repeated themselves, and it worked really well the last time.

 

[Pink Cadillac]

Ziz? It sounds like Liz...
Regardless of the seating position both B&M models will offer a very a different ride experience to Time Warp and Flight Deck, so there wouldn't be a problem adding them to the lineup. The pre-Cedar Fair line up was a quantity-over-quality disaster so anything of "quality" is needed to help balance that out.

 

[Jarrett]

This keeps coming up in my Skype group and we've actually been discussing this, so here's what I dropped last night:

The most sensible choice here might actually be a wing. Going back to Hyde's lovely list of coaster types that make up a lineup, usually one of the key ones in there is one that creates a flying sensation, such as an invert, flyer, or wing. The problem here? The park already has an invert (Flight Deck, ew) and a flyer (Time Warp). Rumor is that one or both of these might be leaving, but replacing it with one of its current type would likely be seen by the GP as just a bigger version of that ride. However, the park doesn't have a wing coaster and neither does the nation of Canada as a whole. Instead of just building a bigger version of one of those rides, a wing would bring something fresh to the park that the target audience has possibly never seen before. Not to mention they could probably call it Ziz and stick GateKeeper wheel covers on it and get away with it for a really easy theme job.

Also, wouldn't expect much theming on this one. If you look at how Cedar Fair has branded their B&Ms over the years, GateKeeper (Ouimet's first project) was lacking in theming but made up for it with more modern visual designs. The next year, Banshee was themed out the nose for them, featuring a themed station and gravestones all over the place. Next year they debuted Fury, which again, didn't have so much theming as it did modern designs inspired by the honeycomb pattern used to brand the ride. And this year, Cedar Fair unveiled Valravn, which rocks a castle-themed station, medieval palisades and stonework pillars with the ride's V insignia in the queue, and even its own throne. So you see they have a pattern of modern-themed-modern-themed, so I would expect Ziz to have a more abstract, modern approach taken with it. All this plus ice cream, lighting packages, colored awnings, typical Cedar Fair we know and love. As for colors, Wonderland's signature coasters are blue-green and yellow, and their others are grey, red, green, and yellow. This leaves as-of-now-unused colors to be white, black, purple, royal blue/indigo, and maybe orange. Knowing Cedar Fair and their wacky color schemes, I wouldn't expect to see them go with a conventional choice for this either.

Right now, there's land being cleared by Minebuster and construction trailers are showing up. Should get really interesting really fast...

 

[peep]

Banshee is themed? That's news to me.

I like the idea of Canada's Wonderland getting a good B&M invert.

I do fear that if they try to tie it in with Behemoth and Leviathan then they'll just make something massive like Banshee or Gatekeeper and they'll be more concerned about how big they can make it rather than concentrating on a decent ride experience.

Whatever they go for it'll probably be a B&M and I'd be happy with that.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Hutch]

Yeah this Ziz rumor isn't the first time I've heard of it. I'm thinking it might be a wing rider over an invert or flyer, though I think any of them would be welcome additions. Whatever they do it'll be another big ass B&M.

 

[GuyWithAStick]

What everyone wants:
[youtubevid]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMOZduyFXHk[/youtubevid]

What everyone expects(skip to 8 minutes for POV):
[youtubevid]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_H78MfHCLM[/youtubevid]

It will most likely be a B&M Wingrider if the Ziz thing is happening. Not only will it fill in a gap at CW, but it'd also make the most sense if they're going with the Ziz theme of flight and the sky.

 

[gavin]

They won't use Ziz. Or shouldn't anyway. Leviathan and Behemoth stand alone well as names. People know they mean something big without having to know jack about the biblical reference. Ziz is meaningless to practically everyone and doesn't create an image of something large/frightening.

Plus, they must get a huge number of French speakers at the park. I don't know about Canadian French, but in "real" French "zizi" means pussy/minge.

 

[Jarrett]

^I thought that too about the name not meaning anything to most, but then again most people don't know what a Rougarou, Banshee, or Valravn are. I could see it potentially.

And Peep, Banshee may not have a giant pre-show cathedral before the ride, but they definitely had a theme present. And it's much more themed than Fury.

EDIT: Gavin, it has nothing to do with the ride but jsyk, zizi doesn't mean pussy, it means willy. My family's French-American and I've known that for years, and a quick Google would confirm it.

 

[Hyde]

I'm not going to name my roller coaster eggs before they hatch. :wink: Anyways, let us also not forget that Centurion still remains unused by Cedar Fair.

In terms of theming, Cedar Fair is very big on minimalistic design. To say the latest slew of Cedar Fair B&Ms is themed is a bit of an overstatement - building walls and stations that carry a similar design/color pattern (and a couple fake gravestones for Banshee) is still a far cry from a traditional theme park approach. These rides still lack general narrative, visual effects, or millions of dollars of movie licensing coughParamountcough.

But the more important thing is that Canada's Wonderland get some love with a new roller coaster - named Ziz or not.

 

[BigBad]

A wing makes more sense to me than an invert, but I'd be surprised if they called it Ziz.

 

[oriolat2]

If this is meant to be a flying beast, and considering that Cedar Fair has just opened Valravn, could see a B&M Dive Machine coming to Canada's Wonderland?

I know a Flyer or an Inverted coaster would be easily associated to the ability to fly, but most Dive Machine are "themed" or "inspired" by mythological creatures (Griffon, Valravn, SheiKra) anyway...

Personally, I'd love to see a good flyer being installed at a CF park. I know CF are the ones that could really run one like it's supposed to be run and mantained (aka 3 trains, little to no stacking, big layout, nicely landscaped, some effects, etc.).

 

[gavin]

So I got the gender wrong (though actually zizi can be used for both). Regardless, it would be a horrendous choice of name. A childish name for genitalia just doesn't work for a coaster.

 

[Ben]

Yeah the quick Google says it's both so get off your I'm right you're wrong wagon Jarrett.

It's a crappy name anyway I think they'll just go with another theme. It also won't be another hyper so it fits using a different name.

 

[LiveForTheLaunch]

They could literally get any sort of B&M coaster that relies on inversions and it would be a good choice. Wing riders kind of seem like the thing to build at the moment, moreso than flyers anyway, so I'd put my money on that before a flyer. Despite having two amazing B&Ms, their lineup still really isn't that well rounded because it's mostly full of crappy versions of things that could be good had they been built by another manufacturer (SLC instead of B&M, volare instead of a B&M flyer). I don't know about the name Ziz though, for reasons mentioned above, but they do seem to pull out some pretty good names so hopefully they think of something unique.

I'd be okay with them getting anything, but I'm not counting any chickens until this becomes more than speculation.

(Wonderland, please get RMC)

 

[Hyde]

That Volare will make a lovely addition to Michigan's Adventure one day. :razz:

 

[oriolat2]

That Volare will make a lovely addition to Michigan's Adventure one day. :razz:

Or Dorney Park

 

[Youngster Joey]

That Volare will make a lovely addition to Michigan's Adventure one day. :razz:

You Joke but I've been hearing rumors they might finally remove the Volare and the SLC in the next few years.

 

[gavin]

^ They should. Those two are the worst examples of an already s**ty ride type.