Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom closed? (update on page 5)

[Antinos]

Regarding relocating the rides, anything can happen. It doesn't seem like they would relocate T2 or Roller Skater, but they just did it with Serial Thriller at La Ronde. I think we'll have to sit back and let the cards unfold.

Also, Six Flags America has quite a bit of space to work with. There's quite a few acres between Superman: Ride of Steel and Batwing on either side of the path to add new rides or other attractions.

To be honest, anything could go to SFA. I can see them getting Iron Wolf because they don't have a ride like it. I can also see them getting Roller Skater, Roadrunner Express, and Greased Lightnin' because these would be new to the park. Who knows...

 

[ECG]

The Roadrunner Wild Mouse would fit nicely into the space vacated by Two-Face, giving it close proximity to the kiddie area of the park while still leaving plenty of room for bigger thrill rides in the Superman/Batwing area. In fact all the flats other than the carousel/go-karts would also work well at SFA, especially the Ferris Wheel.

 

[CreditCrazy]

CreditCrazy - you're missing the point.

"The same could be said for SFKK" is irrelevant, because SFKK didn't make a profit.

SFA DOES make a profit.

Where are you getting that information? Six Flags mentioned in their conference call that every park was profitable in 2009.

 

[CreditCrazy]

Understand?

No, I'm not convinced just yet. Like I said above, do you have some kind of link of Six Flags' 2009 profits and where they ranked? I'm not questioning you, I just can't find one and all I have to go off of is Shapiro's 2009 Conference Call vaguely saying "every park was profitable in 2009".

 

[IHeartArrow]

I get my information from connected industry friends who happen to know the numbers behind the public conference call - they're the same friends that predicted SFKK to close in the first place, way, way back around the time of the drop tower being taken down.

You can choose not to believe me, but I sure wouldn't go around telling everyone SFA is about to close because SFKK did - you're going to look like quite an idiot.

Like the Dippin Dots guy? Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

And I don't believe he's trying to convince people that SFA is closing, nor did he even say that SFA is going to close.

He's saying that all the parks were profitable. Profitable doesn't mean drawing in millions of guests, but it also doesn't mean that they're harming SF's profits. Some parks, such as SFKK and SFA don't do much for SFI.

 

[Homer]

According to Screamscape, Six Flags isn't allowed to remove any of the rides since they are the property of the Kentucky State Fair.

Current SF status: Told.

 

[Snoo]

Well.. if SFKK would keep on what it was doing, it would probably be a better deal to just sell it all off.

 

[ECG]

According to Screamscape, Six Flags isn't allowed to remove any of the rides since they are the property of the Kentucky State Fair.

That's quite interesting...I wonder how they got Chang out then? It was there when they bought the park...

Smells like a lawsuit or did Six Flags own Chang & not the others?

 

[CreditCrazy]

Anyone who has common sense can recognize the strategy SF took with SFKK - it's a very basic "Salvage what we can until time runs out" strategy.

Now, on to SFA:

SFA really only gets a bad knock among enthusiasts, and its true that the park has far more in common with the "Six Flags of the Past" than it does with today's improved parks. However, the park still pulls in a hefty profit.

The D.C. area (for anyone who has been to/understands the northeast) is ripe for the picking with SF's perfect clientele - low-middle class range customers who really want nothing more than to pay for a single park for the day and romp around on some big coasters. In this respect, SFA is perfect for the region, and there's really no competition anywhere nearby. It's also why it's one of the few parks where season passes are the same price as a single-day ticket - because most of its annual clientele doesn't come back!

For most parks, this would be a death sentence - for SFA, it works. Why? Because of the reasons above - namely, proximity and clientele. This means that for the casual enthusiast, the park isn't going to have much appeal, because it draws upon that city-rough crowd that tends to trash up parks (see: Dorney). As such, SFA gets a bad name for atmosphere - but people fail to realize that SFA's target clientele doesn't give a damn about atmosphere. They want to get in and ride big rides - which is exactly how a park SFA's style survives.

Once again, you need to understand that enthusiast opinion means absolutely nothing about how a park does. Enthusiasts hate SFA, but the park happens to do well for itself. Saying something like "SFA doesn't do much for SFI" is not only entirely incorrect, it's quite ignorant and uneducated as to how parks operate on a business level.

If SFA is making the money, why don't you think the park has gotten much attention? I can't even think of the last ride that was built at the park, and its last coaster opened, what, 9 years ago?

Back to the location issue, SFA really doesn't have much more competition than SFKK. Whether the area is near DC or Louisville, your local park is your local park, and if you can't get to the parks within 2 hours nearby (HW, BB, KI for Louisville and KD and HP for DC) you don't go to them.

 

[Pokemaniac]

^Trust me, UC knows what he's talking about. Either, you misunderstood him, or don't get what he's saying. He's not wrong (well, unless he talks airtime, and even there he's got a quite good hit rate).

You'll learn.

 

[CreditCrazy]

If SFA is making the money, why don't you think the park has gotten much attention? I can't even think of the last ride that was built at the park, and its last coaster opened, what, 9 years ago?

What are you talking about?

I'll leave the broken Ultra Twister out of this, since that story is well known by now (park intended to add it, found out the ride would cost a fortune to fix)

The park has undergone a variety of internal improvements since new management took over (trust me, it's far better now than it ever was). If I recall, the Boss (a classic wooden coaster) got some TLC a couple of years ago, and the park has been removing rides that are mechanical nightmares (the Invertigo). They've been cleaning it up!

This isn't to mention the fact they're about to get a major new addition for 2010 to make the park a bit more family friendly - the largest Thomas Town in North America, no less.

I could take this a step further and mention how the park president stated he's hoping to add a major new attraction for 2011, but I think I've made my point.

Remember - just because a park doesn't get massive new coasters doesn't mean they aren't getting attention. Remember that the initial goal of new management was to slow down the introduction of massive thrill ride after massive thrill ride and focus on the infrastructure of each park - there weren't many parks that needed it more than SFA, and despite enthusiast opinion, they've done a fine job fixing it up.

Sure the park has gotten improvements, but that's minor compared to everything the rest of the SF parks have gotten in the past few years. I can't speak for the rest of the SF Chain as I have not been to every SF park, but I know SFDK and SFMM have definitely improved and in addition have gotten new rides, so why not SFA?

Edit: Since this is an SFKK topic, I found this interesting...

http://www.whas11.com/news/business/Wha ... 72172.html

 

[Homer]

UC, another good WORDS WORDS WORDS post, but a correction.

SFDK? What? They've added a few infrastructure upgrades and kiddie areas, but haven't added a major ride since Zonga in 2006 (and it was promptly removed and sold).

Zonga opened in 2003, removed in 2006, and Tony Hawk's Big Spin opened in 2008 (which was a pretty big upgrade, especially after the park got an upgrade in 2006).

 

[IHeartArrow]

Well now. Let's look at what all of Six Flags' parks recieved most recently in the way of a roller coaster. Not an area expansion, re-located coaster sitting in a field rusting for one of many reasons, or a flat ride.

Six Flags America- Batwing, 2001
Six Flags Discovery Kingdom- Tony Hawk's Big Spin, 2008
Darien Lake- Orange County Choppers Motocoaster, 2008
Six Flags Magic Mountain- Terminator Salvation, 2009
Six Flags Fiesta Texas- Goliath, 2008
Six Flags over Texas- Tony Hawk's Big Spin, 2008
Six Flags Great Adventure- Dark Knight, 2008
Six Flags over Georgia- Goliath, 2006
Six Flags St. Louis- Evel Knievel, 2008
Six Flags Great America- Dark Knight, 2008
Six Flags Mexico- Dark Knight, 2009
Six Flags New England- Pandemonium, 2005
Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom- Greezed Lightnin', 2003

Pardon me if I'm forgetting any but it appears that every single park except Six Flags America and Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom have gotten a coaster within the past five years.

So, Six Flags America is the only park that has not received something significant that will bring in a ton of new people and spark interest in enthusiasts. I know I'm planning a trip to Six Flags America, but it's not because they just added Thomas Town or re-painted Superman and Mind Eraser. I realize that Thomas Town will draw families, but what would draw even more crowds is simply a new coaster. It doesn't even have to be new. Look at Dominator at KD, it turns 10 this year, is from a now closed park, and it certainly improved the park a lot. Six Flags America also had one of their coasters taken away in 2007 after it had an accident and was deemed "dangerous" when it simply got stuck on the lift, as Invertigo at California's Great America has. Also, if they really wanted to utilize what they have, they could get Premier to help them out a little bit with Ultra Twister. Premier has worked on TOGO coasters in the past.

 

[ECG]

Lovin' this topic!
So far I gotta agree with everything UC has said, except the Zonga thing of course (which I didn't look up nor knew about until I<3Arrow's post). I would love to write SFA off (& I'm sure I'm not alone with that), but the park will be around for quite some time (for all the reasons UC has gone into such detail about). Sure there's much that could be done, including bringing in a major coaster, but the same could be said of other parks (i.e. Marineland). It will be interesting to see how SFA is affected by KD's I305, considering Dommy didn't make a difference a couple years ago. My bet is for repeat numbers or even an increase.

 

[ECG]

Now that's more like the old UC we all know & love. :wink:
I think nothing makes a stronger testament to Shapiro's thinking than what happened with Ka this summer. The chain's highest profile coaster was down for a huge chunk of the season & cost a small fortune to get operational again. It put a real dent in the park's profit margin & left a bitter taste in the mouths of guests. (Yes, the GP does notice when a coaster that dominates the skyline is not running, even if they never intended to ride it.)
Six Flags simply cannot afford to have more coasters of this magnitude in other parks. Ka & X2 push the reliability envelope as far as the chain can handle. Practicality & affordability are the only chance to turn the company around and nobody seems to know this more than the man currently in charge.
As I said earlier, it's a shame that some of the rides from SFKK cannot be moved to SFA. The Roadrunner wild mouse, Ferris Wheel or one of the other flats would have been excellent addition to the expansion of the kiddie area & would have fit nicely into the policies UC listed.

 

[Homer]

And also to add, if Six Flags wanted to advertise a new ride, they could easily pull off an X2 or Bizarro job and get profit.

Which I don't mind, all of these theming upgrades really add to a good ride.

This should be at the end of every single one of UC's posts;

That or "Cool story, bro."

 

[Snoo]

God.. I missed you Steve.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Oh UC... <3

I'm glad you're back...

 

[Dave]

That was epic, informative and fun.

 

[RCF]

I think I finally saw the awesomeness of UC.