Mitch Hawker Wood Coaster Poll 2012 - Results

[ECG]

^I like that. Here's how mine stack up.

1. Boulder Dash (4)
2. El Toro @SFGAdv (1)
3. The Voyage (3)
4. Colossos (10)
5. Phoenix (5)
6. Ravine Flyer II (7)
7. El Toro @Plohn (12)
8. Prowler (17)
9. Cornball Express (42)
10. Lightning Racer (38/35)

 

[Hyde]

Props to Ryan Sickles, who posted on our Facebook wall some "sand baggers"; people who intentionally rig their ballots to have a roller coaster score lower.

Here is his list:

~"Grand Prairie, Texas"
~"David Lipnicky"
El Toro #4, Voyage #106?!?!?!?!

~"West Virginia, USA"
~""
Rated El Toro #1 and Voyage down #40, fifth to last, and only in front of Son of Beast?!?!?

~"Virginia"
~"Chuck Campbell"
El Toro #3, Voyage #36.

~"PA"
~"CMG"
El Toro #4, Voyage #84, just behind Zach's Zoomers?!?!?!

~"Philadelphia, PA"
~"Scott Hebert"
El Toro #9, Voyage #41, BEHIND MEAN STREAK!?!?!?!

~"New Jersey"
~"your name/nickname between these quotes (optional)"
El Toro #2, Voyage #22, behind Gwazi!?!?!

~"Tennessee"
~"Pete Owens"
Voyage #54, dead last on his list.

~"Orlando Florida "
~"Andrew Fisher"
El Toro #3, Voyage #40.

~"Chicago"
~"Jeremie Kowalik"
El Toro #2, Voyage #17, behind TimberWold at Worlds of Fun!?!?!

 

[bmac]

1. Phoenix (5)
2. El Toro (1)
3. Twister (52)
4. Lightning Racer (35, 38t)
5. Grizzly (105)
6. Great White (69)
7. Gwazi (96, 101)
8. Comet (99)
9. Blue Streak (65)
10. Cyclone (56)

Hahaha, Hyde it happens every year. I do disagree with the smaller ride count ones since literally one third of the top 15 have LESS THAN 20 RIDERS. I don't like the idea of 11, 18, or 19 people having a more powerful vote than one with 150.

 

[Mike]

~"Virginia"
~"Chuck Campbell"
El Toro #3, Voyage #36.

I won't comment on the others, as I don't know who they are, but I do know that Chuck is an extremely nice person, has ridden a crap ton of coasters and generally knows what he's talking about.

Jeremie's ballot also seems very legitimate. So what if Voyage is behind Timber Wolf? TW is a very solid coaster whilst Voyage can be utterly brutal if you catch in on a bad day or if you sit in the wrong train (the ride's only high on my list because it was saved by Raven's train. It's original tran absolutely sucked balls).
Edit: Same for Scott's ballot.

All the others though, where no name is provided, are probably just trolls.

 

[CanobieFan]

Re: Mitch Hawker Wood Coaster Poll 2012

My top '15' of 125 rated woodies, woo woo.
Boulder Dash Lake Compounce CT,y,n,1
El Toro SFGAd NJ,y,n,1
Lost Coaster of SM Indiana Beach IN,y,n,2
Cornball Express Indiana Beach IN,y,n,3
Thundercoaster Tusenfryd NO,y,n,4
Troy Toverland NL,y,n,5
Renegade Valleyfair! MN,y,n,6
Kentucky Rumbler Beech Bend KY,y,n,7
Dania Bch Hurr (S) Dania Beach FL,y,n,8
Ozark Wildcat(SBNO) Celebration City MO,y,n,9
Yankee Cannonball Canobie Lake Park NH,y,y,10
Cyclone (SBNO) Williams Grove PA,y,n,11
Comet Great Escape NY,y,n,12
Hell Cat Clementon Lake NJ,y,n,13
Silver Comet Martin's Fantasy Is. NY,y,n,14
Ravine Flyer II Waldameer PA,y,n,15

Well, that's how I placed my top 15, and now here's where they fell, 3 being omitted for being SBNO so I've italicize them.

1 El Toro SFGAd NJ 297 167 0 0 1.0000 (1)
4 Boulder Dash Lake Compounce CT 174 164 3 0 0.9820 52 (1)
7 Ravine Flyer II Waldameer PA 145 158 8 1 0.9491 (15)
13 Troy Toverland NL 120 154 12 0 0.9277 (5)
19 Renegade Valleyfair! MN 78 147 20 0 0.8802 (6)
20 Ozark Wildcat(SBNO) Celebration City MO 38 162 19 4 0.8865 (9)
27 Kentucky Rumbler Beech Bend KY 89 141 24 2 0.8503 (7)
34 Comet Great Escape NY 110 133 32 2 0.8024 (12)
42 Cornball Express Indiana Beach IN 129 126 40 1 0.7575 (3)
45 Thundercoaster Tusenfryd NO 57 121 44 1 0.7319 (4)
45 Dania Bch Hurr (S) Dania Beach FL 58 139 41 3 0.7678 (8)
48 Silver Comet Martin's Fantasy Is. NY 69 120 47 0 0.7186 (14)
64 Yankee Cannonball Canobie Lake Park NH 77 101 64 2 0.6108 (10)
78 Hell Cat Clementon Lake NJ 64 86 75 6 0.5329 (13)
88 Lost Coaster of SM Indiana Beach IN 116 80 84 3 0.4880 (2)
156 Cyclone (SBNO) Williams Grove PA 34 30 148 6 0.1793 (11)

The following Standing but not Operating coasters are not included in the official results: Rank indicates how they would have placed if included.
20 Ozark Wildcat(SBNO) Celebration City MO 38 162 19 4 0.8865
45 Dania Bch Hurr (S) Dania Beach FL 58 139 41 3 0.7678
156 Cyclone (SBNO) Williams Grove PA 34 30 148 6 0.1793

Edit - I've made a long rambling pointless blog post about my rankings here - http://amusementparkstuff.blogspot.com/ ... astes.html

 

[tomahawk]

^^Sorry, I just thought you said Timberwolf is a solid coaster. It needs to be burnt to the ground, it is absolutely garbage and one of the worst wooden coasters I have ever ridden.

 

[furie]

Re: Mitch Hawker Wood Coaster Poll 2012

Gavin has already said it well to be honest, but as I was picked out and can't refuse when called upon

Still, I think furie explained what's so great about Boulder Dash best (even though Mike just did a great job of it), but I don't remember exactly where he posted his opinion & have done a quick search but can't find it. So I hope he'll have a easier time finding it again & re-post it here.
Maybe he can also explain why we had such a bad experience riding Phoenix when he visited the park, even though I've never had anything but an awesome ride all the other times I've been to Knoebels. I personally think it was because he refused to ride in the front, but that still doesn't explain why there was absolutely no airtime in the back when we rode it together. I've always had pops of airtime in the back, even though it's nowhere near what you get in the front.

I think that the people who like Boulder Dash HAVE explained why. "It's **** brilliant" is an explanation, surely?

I know I went into great detail about it. It's just the way it constantly kicked me out of my seat. The coaster seemed to be permanently falling away from me and leaving me no time to catch up before it was back up the next incline.

The sudden ejection as it entered blind corners and fell away? Sublime. It was just permanently lifting me out of my seat.

The only thing I disagree with is the return leg which everyone raves about. I thought it was "good", but that wasn't the highlight for me. So even between "Dash Lovers", there's a difference as to what people think makes the coaster great.

I have the polar opposite opinion of Phoenix as Joey does of Boulder Dash. I found the ride couldn't show me any potential to be good at all. I just couldn't see how the thing could possibly deliver anything. Rollercoaster (or whatever it is now at Blackpool) has more speed, airtime and laterals and even if it didn't, you could at least see where it might do. I looked at Phoenix and couldn't see how it could give a good ride. I rode it and didn't get a good ride and couldn't see a single spot where the ride could have been improved in the slightest. No steep hills, no speed, just nothing at all to the ride.

That's why I didn't ride it at the front. It would have just felt like a waste of money (we paid per ride due to the weather). To be honest, it may have been a good thing, at least not riding it a second time and finding "the awesome front" was utterly lacklustre means I can see that my one ride wasn't enough to give me a good experience to base an opinion on. It means that it left me with hope.

Wodan I guess is parallel to this. The rides at the back were really dull, but the front was "not quite so dull, mediocre maybe". So my opinion of Wodan is piss poor, and less piss poor at the front, but never actually any good. I rode it in the worst place and the best place, so it's a validated opinion. If I'd been on the front of Phoenix and it still was bad, I'd feel that my opinion of there not being a single way the ride could be good would have been validated.

It means that I have reason to return to Knoebels to try and find out what everyone goes on about.

Knoebels was horrid that day too. So wet and miserable, but I really enjoyed Twister, so a bad park setting on a bad day shouldn't change your opinion of the place. I also agree Lake Compounce isn't a great park and may be a rip-off, but I would be happily ripped off to ride Boulder Dash "when it's running well". I guess if it was running like Phoenix, I'd have the same poor opinion of the park - but it's irrelevant to if the coaster is good or not.

Found the first things I wrote about BD:

Reviews
Boulder Dash
http://www.coasterforce.com/Boulder_Dash
Where to start? Sheer awesome are the only two words I can use to describe this. The coaster oddly looks like Lisebergbanan in an odd way. The long straight lift hill up the hill side and the fast drop off it. Did I say fast? I meant **** fast! You see that train hammer past the station like an express! It seriously, seriously moves. You don’t see anything then of it until a minute or so later it reappears back at the station.

The ride has everything. It’s incredibly fast, the airtime just keeps on coming. It’s unexpected, with odd dips and curves and hills as it follows the terrain. You’re constantly being surprised by the ride. It doesn’t lose momentum at any point and just keeps up a brilliant pace. It’s also pretty smooth and comfortable considering what the ride is doing. It knocks you about a little, but in a fun way, and Jerry says it’s much better with the trim on the turnaround – it slows you just enough to take the corner nicely while still retaining pacing. You barely notice the trim in action.

The best thing? The ride is superb no matter where you sit. I tried most of the seats and it’s excellent everywhere. No Baco “third seat on the right inside at 5:23 p.m. only” here. Just a blindingly fast, exciting, thrilling, mind blowing superb monster of a coaster.

You may get the impression I loved the coaster? 20/10 and at that point in time (still not done El Toro, Ka and Griffon yet) straight to my number 1 without hesitation.

Of course, you could say that because it had been so hyped, I was trying to please Jerry or in the mood or something. However, Jerry can tell you I wasn't anywhere near as excited getting of Bizarro, El Toro or Griffon (the other three Jerry was really hyping). I thought they were superb/good, but the difference between Boulder Dash and those was enormous. The coaster really just was fantastic. I can't say anything more than that. I can totally believe it was running badly, but that doesn't make my opinion invalid or wrong in any way.

 

[Hyde]

^^Sorry, I just thought you said Timberwolf is a solid coaster. It needs to be burnt to the ground, it is absolutely garbage and one of the worst wooden coasters I have ever ridden.

I'm actually with Mike on this one - Timber Wolf is my #10 for wooden coasters.

I can absolutely see where the ride would be awful; but somehow, some way, riding an empty train on an 87 degree day in the very back created some amazing ejector air and proved to be very smooth. It would be an understatement to say I was surprised.

 

[nadroJ]

I think the most disappointing thing with Boulder Dash for me is that I still believe it must be good. It just must. I don't know what happened on the day we went, and I'm not one to say something was crap when everyone else says it's good just for the sake of it, it really was unremarkable, so much so that me and AJ buggered off after 3-4 rides on it to do some of the other stuff in the park, because we just weren't bothered about riding it again, which is such a shame because the praise it gets must come from somewhere.

 

[Tomatron]

Props to Ryan Sickles, who posted on our Facebook wall some "sand baggers"; people who intentionally rig their ballots to have a roller coaster score lower.

Here is his list:

~"Grand Prairie, Texas"
~"David Lipnicky"
El Toro #4, Voyage #106?!?!?!?!

~"West Virginia, USA"
~""
Rated El Toro #1 and Voyage down #40, fifth to last, and only in front of Son of Beast?!?!?

~"Virginia"
~"Chuck Campbell"
El Toro #3, Voyage #36.

~"PA"
~"CMG"
El Toro #4, Voyage #84, just behind Zach's Zoomers?!?!?!

~"Philadelphia, PA"
~"Scott Hebert"
El Toro #9, Voyage #41, BEHIND MEAN STREAK!?!?!?!

~"New Jersey"
~"your name/nickname between these quotes (optional)"
El Toro #2, Voyage #22, behind Gwazi!?!?!

~"Tennessee"
~"Pete Owens"
Voyage #54, dead last on his list.

~"Orlando Florida "
~"Andrew Fisher"
El Toro #3, Voyage #40.

~"Chicago"
~"Jeremie Kowalik"
El Toro #2, Voyage #17, behind TimberWold at Worlds of Fun!?!?!

I can't comment for the other people listed, but Chuck is a well respected enthusiast who has been on a hell of a lot of rides. To say that he would intentionally rig his ballot is bang out of order.

I don't rate the Voyage either, but I'd love to try it again to see if my opinion changes. But for now it sits about halfway down my list of favourite woodies.

 

[Snoo]

I think the most disappointing thing with Boulder Dash for me is that I still believe it must be good. It just must. I don't know what happened on the day we went, and I'm not one to say something was crap when everyone else says it's good just for the sake of it, it really was unremarkable, so much so that me and AJ buggered off after 3-4 rides on it to do some of the other stuff in the park, because we just weren't bothered about riding it again, which is such a shame because the praise it gets must come from somewhere.

That might have very well been your problem. You've heard for years that it would be amazing.. and when it didnt fit the bill.. it was MUCH more disappointing then if you had never heard of it. The exact opposite happened to me.. I had never heard of it.. thought it would be ok.. and it blew me away.

 

[johhnyD1498]

I'm really happy El Toro made #1! My favorite wood coaster of all time!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[furie]

That might have very well been your problem. You've heard for years that it would be amazing.. and when it didnt fit the bill.. it was MUCH more disappointing then if you had never heard of it. The exact opposite happened to me.. I had never heard of it.. thought it would be ok.. and it blew me away.

Nah, I had been told for years it would be amazing and the best thing ever - it lived up to the hype for me. Not everything on the trip did, so it's not because I "want to fit in". Also, I suspect people know that I know my own mind

 

[nadroJ]

Ha, AJ had never heard of it and was like what the hell why was I meant to be excited for this again?

 

[LiveForTheLaunch]

1 El Toro SFGAd NJ 297 167 0 0 1.0000
2 T Express Everland KR 19 164 1 1 0.9910
3 The Voyage Holiday World IN 202 164 3 0 0.9820 57
4 Boulder Dash Lake Compounce CT 174 164 3 0 0.9820 52
5 Phoenix Knoebel's PA 242 163 4 0 0.9760
6 Balder Liseberg SE 86 160 5 1 0.9669
7 Dauling Dragon-L Happy Valley CN 11 155 7 3 0.9485 4
8 Ravine Flyer II Waldameer PA 145 158 8 1 0.9491 3
9 Dauling Dragon-R Happy Valley CN 11 154 8 3 0.9424
10 Colossos Heide Park DE 122 156 9 2 0.9401
11 Fireball Happy Valley Song CN 18 155 11 0 0.9337
12 El Toro Freizeitpark Plohn DE 35 153 11 1 0.9303
13 Troy Toverland NL 120 154 12 0 0.9277
14 Wood Coaster Knight Valley CN 11 146 7 10 0.9264
15 Thunderhead Dollywood TN 184 152 14 1 0.9132
16 Twister Grona Lund SE 39 149 15 2 0.9036
17 Prowler Worlds of Fun MO 88 149 16 2 0.8982
18 Thunderbird PowerPark FI 34 147 19 0 0.8855
19 Renegade Valleyfair! MN 78 147 20 0 0.8802
20 Tremors Silverwood ID 39 143 18 5 0.8765

So, my thoughts on this:

- El Toro definitely still deserves to be up there

- VOYAGE beat Boulder Dash which makes me very happy

- For me, Boulder Dash was not about the airtime. It only made my top ten because of the same reasons that Beast did, which is the wooded setting and the whole surprise factor. Sadly though, one of the surprise factors for me was the fact it had no airtime.

- Maybe Phoenix and Ravine Flyer II deserve to be a bit higher than they are, but I can't say for sure because I haven't been on some of the ones from Asia and Europe that beat them out

- Thunderhead is not better than Prowler. In fact, Thunderhead was very underwhelming for me.

 

[Hyde]

^ And meanwhile I have the opposite, placing Thunderhead as #3 and Prowler as #7.

Here is my Top 10 ballot:

Ravine Flyer II Waldameer PA,y,y,1
My Favorite Steel Anypark Anywhere **,y,y,2
Thunderhead Dollywood TN,y,n,3
Apocalypse S. F. Magic Mountain CA,y,y,4
The Beast Kings Island OH,y,y,5
Lightning Racer - L Hersheypark PA,y,y,6
Lightning Racer - T Hersheypark PA,y,y,7, Alpha
Prowler Worlds of Fun MO,y,n,8
Colossus S.F. Magic Mountain CA,y,y,9
Wildcat Hersheypark PA,y,y,10

Admittedly Thunderhead was my first GCI, so maybe there is bias in having such a new experience. Prowler is a great coaster, but I still prefer a more twister layout than straight airtime hills. I guess that's partially why I even place Apocalypse as #4.

 

[Brookes]

Re: Mitch Hawker Wood Coaster Poll 2012

Boulder Dash doesn't do anything and is at a terrible park. I don't get it.

What does the park that a coaster sits in have to do with whether it's a great coaster or not? Aren't these rankings supposed to be about the coaster itself & not whether it sits in a terrible park or not?

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how misguided, but aren't other also entitled to theirs, no matter how misguided? :?

I think the park has a lot to do with how opinions are formed about coasters, but in the totally opposite way that Joey states. In the case of Boulder Dash, I haven't ridden it personally, but surely it gets even more admiration from the fact that there isn't anything else significant in the park. After all, everything is relative and compared to everything else in the park, it must seem unbelieveable. But take a ride such as El Toro, situated in a park packed full of other huge coasters and it may not be surprising that the ride doesn't stick out as much for some.

As Joey says, many people like these small parks where there are only one or two stand-out rides, as I do myself, so I believe it must have some impact on the rating of rides.

 

[furie]

Nah :lol:

I rode Boulder Dash in the same day I'd been to SFNE. So I'd been on one fantastic, and a few good rides already that day. It's was pretty much a "credit hunt" to LC just for Boulder Dash (though we did the rest of the park too). So yeah, out of 13 coasters that day (or whatever it was), it wasn't that I was making the most out of the park and coaster.

The group last year simply got the ride at a turd time. It's sad, but these things happen. I think I put the much accredited "Phoenix" at about 37 in my woodies, certainly after everything at Blackpool.

Same thing, it was just a turd day to ride it. Sometimes the hobby sucks and it really is the ride physically not performing, not any kind of poor mental attitude or anything.

 

[andrus]

The group last year simply got the ride at a turd time. It's sad, but these things happen. I think I put the much accredited "Phoenix" at about 37 in my woodies, certainly after everything at Blackpool.

Same thing, it was just a turd day to ride it. Sometimes the hobby sucks and it really is the ride physically not performing, not any kind of poor mental attitude or anything.

But that's not entirely true. You earlier wrote that you never rode Phoenix at the front (and hence never gave it a chance):

I looked at Phoenix and couldn't see how it could give a good ride. I rode it and didn't get a good ride and couldn't see a single spot where the ride could have been improved in the slightest. No steep hills, no speed, just nothing at all to the ride.

That's why I didn't ride it at the front. It would have just felt like a waste of money (we paid per ride due to the weather).

Before our visit to Knoebels I wondered why we were driving so far off to ride a coaster that looked a bit boring tbh. But after my first ride in the back I thought "this was ok" and actually enjoyed myself quite a bit. Still nothing amazing though, definitely not top 10 worthy.

Then the others told me that I had to ride in the front and that it's only good at the very front row. And omg! What an incredible ride! It went from an "ok/fun ride" in the back to "omg **** amazing/world class" in the front row! The substance of this is that all the airitime on Phoenix is on the upward going hills, and the train carries the most speed at the front rows here. The train has time to lose enough momentum to only give slight airtime in the back while it delivers fairly strong ejector in the front!

 

[furie]

The thing is, riding in the rear and the coaster offered nothing. It wasn't even okay, or "a bit fun". It was like driving through a built up area slowly in a car. The ride just didn't offer the tiniest bit of anything and it crawled, really, really crawled. It was barely making it round a circuit it was so slow. It didn't lose momentum because it never had any momentum in the first place.

It's hard to explain just how utterly little the ride did when I rode it. If you'd been there, you'd have not wanted to waste another $4 or whatever to ride the front

It really was just like a larger version of Zipper Dipper/Blue Flier at Blackpool.