What's new
I would be suprised if more than a couple of track sections get replaced.

At a guess I would say a new lift chain and guides, new sprockets and bearings, new main drive and gearbox.
New station drives and gearboxes.
New brake units with most of them replaced by magnetic brakes as Nemesis chews through brass pads like I go through pizza.
A new air compressor with new pipes, regulators and valves.

If I recall correctly, it has already had a major upgrade as far as the control system is concerned but if not then this would likely be replaced to bring everything up to date with current regulations.

If it does get magnetic brakes, then it would need completely new trains as the chassis is not deep enough to mount brake fins.

It is nice to see a park put as much investment into the future of a ride as it put into originally building it rather than trying to replace it.
 
The claim about a possible overhaul isn't the craziest idea, it's bound to be near the end of service life by now. This one though: "B&M (Bolliger and Mabillard) no longer supply the trains that would be a right fit for the Nemesis track I heard somewhere" That's the kind of garbage enthusiast claim I cannot stand. No longer supply the trains for nemesis yet they're producing the same ones for Monster? Suuure.
 
That bit did raise an eyebrow but it would be sort of correct as newer designs would mean having to re-tool in order to produce parts for older stuff. It would work out cheaper for B&M in the long run to offer a complete upgrade in order to reduce overall manufacturing costs.
 

Matt N

Well-Known Member
This would certainly be interesting if it did happen within the next few years! It also wouldn’t surprise me if it did happen; Nemesis has actually had sections of track (or at very least supports) in the helix replaced before due to stress, and the vertical loop seems to have become quite problematic in recent years from a structural point of view.

From a ride experience point of view, also, I’d personally say the ride is certainly beginning to show signs of age now. While I wouldn’t call Nemesis a rough coaster per se, one or two of the inversions are getting a little bit jolty now; the second corkscrew and zero-g roll seem to be the key offenders for this, and I often come off the ride with somewhat sore ears nowadays when I perhaps didn’t a few years ago. If they could smooth out these inversions, I think my love for it would go up to an extent. Although with that being said, I’m not actually sure how much a retrack would affect the ride from a smoothness perspective unless they made profiling tweaks of some form, as based on my experiences with Hulk at Universal just 3 weeks after reopening, it didn’t seem to do an awful lot for that ride.

It would certainly be radical to see Nemesis get overhauled in this way, but I don’t think it’s out of the question; Merlin have seemingly allowed for Shaman at Gardaland to get fully retracked in this manner, and they practically fully retracked Colossos at Heide Park, as well, so I could definitely see them potentially allowing one for Nemesis in the not too distant future, especially if they could get some form of complete brand refresh out of it in the same way they did for Colossos at Heide.
 

Pokemaniac

Mountain monkey
Staff member
Administrator
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Given the extensive, custom landscaping of the site, what else could they do, really? I would think tearing down Nemesis and building anything else on the plot would be more expensive than just swapping like for like the day the coaster can't operate anymore. It sounds like it's still popular enough to draw a crowd, so there's no rush to retire it anyway.
 

Crazycoaster

Active Member
I would hope that Merlin would invest in the ride enough to go down the Hulk path when it eventually comes to it. A like for like replacement of the parts while keeping the ride the same. Nemesis is a world renound coaster and I'd like to think there are at least a few people in the influential positions at Merlin to be smart enough to realise that.

There is nothing wrong with the layout of the ride (other than the pump in the tunnel after the final corkscrew), the roughness comes from the parts being overworn and age, so a reproduction would solve any issue the ride has.
 

Wazzupnerds

New Member
I would hope that Merlin would invest in the ride enough to go down the Hulk path when it eventually comes to it. A like for like replacement of the parts while keeping the ride the same. Nemesis is a world renound coaster and I'd like to think there are at least a few people in the influential positions at Merlin to be smart enough to realise that.

There is nothing wrong with the layout of the ride (other than the pump in the tunnel after the final corkscrew), the roughness comes from the parts being overworn and age, so a reproduction would solve any issue the ride has.

Its Merlin though, lets be honest.

Though I am glad to see companies not run coasters to the ground if this is true.
 
Given that nemesis often has one of the smallest queues in the park this surprises me, yes it has cult status amongst enthusiasts and for good reason, But it doesn't have the pull for the G.P that it once did. This is in part due to it having a good capacity, but I just cant imagine a standard refurb will do anything to improve its popularity.

a short cut queue would be nice for re-rides on off peak days would be nice though.
 
the roughness comes from the parts being overworn and age, so a reproduction would solve any issue the ride has.

If a part is worn beyond the specified limits, it will be replaced regardless of how old the ride is. Otherwise you end up with problems that will be a little more serious than a bit of roughness.

The problem for older rides like Nemesis is that replacement parts get more expensive per part and you start having to replace parts more often, this causes maintenance costs to snowball.
 

Crazycoaster

Active Member
Wouldn't the pump be there given water has a tendency to gather on tunnel floors?

No, that pump has been there since the ride opened, it isn’t a serious flaw, just a quicker change in direction to the left. It’s a ‘snappy’ transition more than anything.


If a part is worn beyond the specified limits, it will be replaced regardless of how old the ride is. Otherwise you end up with problems that will be a little more serious than a bit of roughness.

The problem for older rides like Nemesis is that replacement parts get more expensive per part and you start having to replace parts more often, this causes maintenance costs to snowball.

By “parts” I also mean things like the rails, which have been worn over years of use, and can’t be easily swapped out. And considering that B&M still produce Inverted coasters, I would think that parts are all pretty standard and easy to acquire from the company.
 

Hixee

Flojector
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There is nothing wrong with the layout of the ride (other than the pump in the tunnel after the final corkscrew), the roughness comes from the parts being overworn and age, so a reproduction would solve any issue the ride has.
Wouldn't the pump be there given water has a tendency to gather on tunnel floors?
No, that pump has been there since the ride opened, it isn’t a serious flaw, just a quicker change in direction to the left. It’s a ‘snappy’ transition more than anything.
I think you're talking about different types of pump. ;)
 

Nicky Borrill

Active Member
The thought of Nemesis being completely overhauled makes me VERY nervous. Got me thinking about vest restraints, reprofiling, train weights, gauges and all sorts of things that, if done differently, could completely change the ride.

Then I give myself a slap and tell myself that I'd rather be riding any version of Nemesis for another 25 years than any of Merlin's modern creations!!! Exciting.
 

VonRolland

Member
Given that nemesis often has one of the smallest queues in the park this surprises me, yes it has cult status amongst enthusiasts and for good reason, But it doesn't have the pull for the G.P that it once did. This is in part due to it having a good capacity, but I just cant imagine a standard refurb will do anything to improve its popularity.

a short cut queue would be nice for re-rides on off peak days would be nice though.
In regards to riders Nemesis has its actually more the other rides however the queue is short because it absolutely eats through a queue
 

Crazycoaster

Active Member
The thought of Nemesis being completely overhauled makes me VERY nervous. Got me thinking about vest restraints, reprofiling, train weights, gauges and all sorts of things that, if done differently, could completely change the ride.

Then I give myself a slap and tell myself that I'd rather be riding any version of Nemesis for another 25 years than any of Merlin's modern creations!!! Exciting.
Vest restraints will never happen on Nemesis. There simply isn’t the clearance for those trains (which are far wider compared to the OTSR train). So you shouldn’t have to worry about that part at least.
 
By “parts” I also mean things like the rails, which have been worn over years of use, and can’t be easily swapped out. And considering that B&M still produce Inverted coasters, I would think that parts are all pretty standard and easy to acquire from the company.

Parts are usually standardised even across different models.
But this only applies to the design currently in use as designs are always being updated to take advantage of new technology and feedback from customers.
As time goes on and designs evolve, new parts made to the latest specification are not compatible with older machines.

This doesn't mean parts are difficult to get as B&M are still an actively trading company, it just means extra steps need to be taken to make the older parts which adds to the cost.
 

Pokemaniac

Mountain monkey
Staff member
Administrator
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To elaborate my previous point a little: what are the realistic alternatives to refurbishing Nemesis when the time comes?

Alton Towers is under a lot of strict building regulations. Maximum heights, sightline impacts, noise, protected trees, the whole works. In practice, there's only a limited number of sites in the park suitable for coaster building, even if it's a big park. Nemesis' location is one of few places in the park that can hold a coaster at all. And Nemesis is very well tailored to its specific site, especially with all the landscaping done to the area. Building anywhere but the Nemesis site can be tricky for Alton Towers, and building anything but Nemesis on that site will be very expensive.

Nemesis probably can't operate as-is forever, but not using its site in the future would be a waste, and there's really not that many other things to do with that site without prohibitively expensive ground works. If Nemesis was torn down, something very much like it would have to be built in its place anyway.
 

JoshC.

Active Member
"Could Alton Towers overhaul Nemesis?". Yeah, it's definitely in the realm of possibility. The ride is one of B&M's oldest, and has seen a lot of operating hours. We don't know how long B&Ms should be lasting before they get some extra work. And with technology having advanced so much in the past 26 years, I'm sure there's some non-essential stuff that could be done to improve how it runs and such, if Towers/Merlin wanted to spend the money.

With Gardaland retracking Shaman, it's not the most ludicrous thing to suggest even these days. If 6 months ago you were told 'Merlin are going to spend money overhauling Nemesis or Shaman', you'd 100% expect that Nemesis would be the more likely option.

As others have said, the Nemesis pit is designed specifically for Nemesis. What could go in there as a replacement of Nemesis? I'm sure something could be figured out, but it would be expensive and difficult. Especially to replace a ride which is still well received. Even doing a major retrack of Nemesis will be difficult logistically though.

With regards to 'is it popular with the general population?' type questions. Yes, it is. Just because a ride doesn't have a long queue, doesn't mean it isn't popular. As others have said, it has a high throughput, so will naturally have a shorter queue if the same number of people are queueing for a ride with a lower throughput. But even then, at peak times, it can still gain queues of up to 90 minutes. That means people are happy to wait 90 minutes to experience it, just as they're happy to wait that long for the likes of Smiler, Wicker Man, etc. It just happens that it doesn't happen much!

So yeah, I could see something happening to Nemesis at some point. An absolute "overhaul" / retracking? Maybe not. Some extending work and extra money spent to help improve the longevity of the ride system, along with them milking the Nemesis brand a bit? Yeah.
 
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