Cable Lift compared to Chainlift

[GeForce]

Hey guys, I´ve been wondering why is the Cable Lift only really used by Intamin and all other companys are sticking with the traditional chain? I read that the Cable is easier to maintenance, faster than the chain in lifting the train up the hill and in my opinion much smoother compared to the chainlift.

The only real downsight I know is that the Cable has to travel all the way back to the station but does that really hurt the overall ability to operate the ride with good capacity? Or has Intamin exclusive access to the technology?

 

[Intricks]

Intamin was the first to use it on a worldwide scale. There is a coaster in Asia somewhere that uses the cable lift. Can't remember what.

 

[therick311]

I assume it has to do with reliability. See I305 this summer.

 

[andrus]

^Yes, this is why I believe at least B&M does not use a cable lift. It's simply more prone to breakdowns. And what do you gain? Not much imo. The only ride that take real benefit of the technology is Skyrush which have airtime at the top of the lift hill. The other rides could just as well have operated with a regular chain lift.

 

[therick311]

Well, when Millennium Force was built they used the cable lift to save weight and space. The cable is lighter than a chain, and since the lift could be built steeper, they were able to build over 300 feet and not use a ridiculous amount of land just for the lift. Back then the hit to reliability was a trade off for height/land size.

But now we live in a world where Leviathan exists......so, yeah.

 

[Hyde]

It is all a matter of cost. Cable Lifts are more efficient, but cost more. There has also been maintenance issues with how cables wear. B&M has found a happy medium in revamping cheaper chain lift technology, and has been able to increase chain speed.

 

[GeForce]

^Yes, this is why I believe at least B&M does not use a cable lift. It's simply more prone to breakdowns. And what do you gain? Not much imo. The only ride that take real benefit of the technology is Skyrush which have airtime at the top of the lift hill. The other rides could just as well have operated with a regular chain lift.

I think you gain a lot from the cable,not just Skyrush gives you airtime at the top of the lift hill. Sure Intamin could have equipped its Gigas with a chain but it would take forever to get them up there.

 

[Intricks]

I wouldnt really say the cable lift is the reason you get airtime at the top of the lift. It may have something to do with the drastic angle you start heading down to the Earth.

Prime example of another coaster with this phenomenon is Cyclone at SFNE. The lift isnt fast by any manner, but the sheer angle in which you crest the hill has some ridiculous airtime that caused an unneccesary swear and grabbing of the lap restraint.

The airtime that is found at the top of a lift will forever be caused by the angle of descent and how harsh it is...not by what system you use.

In regards to chain speed, Leviathan doesnt take forever to get up its 300ft tall lift.

 

[GeForce]

Okay agreed on the angle but the faster the train goes over the hill the more airtime you will get in the back i guess. Sure Leviathans chain is not slow in general but compared to I305 and Mil. Force it is, still better than the two chain system on Steel Dragon 2000 though

 

[rtotheizzo17]

Piggybacking this topic, how similar is a cable lift mechanism to your standard elevator? In my non-physics brain it is the same thing just at a different angle....is this completely wrong?

As far as speed of lifts, a lot of that has to do with capacity. Leviathan runs 3 trains with the massive brake section, it can make it to the top with a standard chain speed based on the way the ride is spaced out. It truly is beautiful watching good dispatches on B&M's. Everytime Leviathan was at the crown, you had a train hitting the brake run.

305 runs 2 trains (presumably to save on the cost of adding an unload station or an additional brake), it needs to shoot up the lift otherwise you would have spacing issues with the dispatch causing a lowered capacity.

 

[andrus]

I wouldnt really say the cable lift is the reason you get airtime at the top of the lift. It may have something to do with the drastic angle you start heading down to the Earth.

Prime example of another coaster with this phenomenon is Cyclone at SFNE. The lift isnt fast by any manner, but the sheer angle in which you crest the hill has some ridiculous airtime that caused an unneccesary swear and grabbing of the lap restraint.

The airtime that is found at the top of a lift will forever be caused by the angle of descent and how harsh it is...not by what system you use.

It is obviously a combination of speed and angle. Skyrush has a steep (85°) drop, yes. But what's remarkable with Skyrush is that you get airtime as soon as you start to crest the hill. And I wouldn't say that the part where you crest the lift hill is any steeper on Skyrush than other Intamin mega coasters. It's the extra speed that makes you fly out of your seat as soon as you reach the top.

Sure you could make a coaster with a really harsh transition from lift to drop, and get brief airtime even with a slow chain lift. But then you couldn't run the coaster with long trains since the force would be excessive in the rear of the train.

I think you gain a lot from the cable,not just Skyrush gives you airtime at the top of the lift hill. Sure Intamin could have equipped its Gigas with a chain but it would take forever to get them up there.

I'm not so certain of that. The advantage of a chain lift is that it's continous. As soon as one train has crested the hill another can engage the chain. Sure a cable lift is (normally) faster, but you have to wait until it has been winded down the hill until a new train can engage the hill.

One can argue whether the quicker lift a cable normally gives is a good thing or bad (experience wise). Personally I thought that the lift of I305 was too quick. You're extremely high up in the air yet it doesn't feel higher than your regular hyper, most certainly because the time you're traveling up the lift is so damn short! I'm with B&M in this question: a slow lift (or regular, just not unnecessary fast as I305) enhance the ride by building up suspension. Skyrush is forgiven though because the bloody insane airtime more than makes up for the lack of suspension!! :--D


I think that the manufacturers could take even more advantage of the cable lift technology in the future. Imagine a ride that starts of slow, as a regular chain lift. But then, as you close in to the crest of the hill, the cable speeds up to Skyrush speed and gives you incredible airtime over the top! That way you would get the best of two worlds, plus a "mini launch" experience.

That's just my opinion though. Feel free to disagree with me :wink:

 

[Hixee]

My (hopefully) educated guess is weight and mechanical simplicity (to a point).

All the cable lifts out there are either on fast lift hills, or long lift hills, or both. Look at each case individually:
Skyrush style - This lift hill is very fast meaning that all of the lift components (motors, roller wheels, tensioners) are being accelerated very quickly. A chain lift is significantly heavier than a cable and there is also a lot more of it to move (being that the chain has to do the full return journey), and you need mechanically heavy components like gear and chain tensioners that aren't needed with a cable. I think this would mean the cable could accelerate faster, allowing Skyrush to have it's super-fast lift hill. The cable return isn't that big of a deal I don't think, they can almost certainly do it quicker than they can load a train.

I305 style - This lift his is very big, straight away meaning a lower weight is better. The chain for I305 would be very big and heavy and would require a lot of power to move it. It's also a relatively fast lift hill, meaning all of the inertia problems I mentioned above are also a factor.

So then look at the opposite cases. Why does Leviathan have a chain? My guess is that because the lift hill isn't remarkably fast, the inertia issues aren't that much of a problem, and power doesn't bother them too much to they can justify using a chain. What about most small coasters still using chains? Again, my guess is basically down to the fact that the technology is tried, tested and reliable.

Chain = Heavy, slow, reliable
Cable = Light, fast, tempramental

Depending on the requirements for each project (along with the general tendency for B&M to go for reliable designs and Intamin to be more experimental, for example), I suspect that these are the main reason to pick one over the other.

 

[GeForce]

The cable return isn't that big of a deal I don't think, they can almost certainly do it quicker than they can load a train.

^ I completely agree with you on that, I think a 3 train,chainlift B&M Giga and a 2 train,cablelift Intamin are pretty equal in the Riders per hour numbers.

One can argue whether the quicker lift a cable normally gives is a good thing or bad (experience wise). Personally I thought that the lift of I305 was too quick. You're extremely high up in the air yet it doesn't feel higher than your regular hyper, most certainly because the time you're traveling up the lift is so damn short! I'm with B&M in this question: a slow lift (or regular, just not unnecessary fast as I305) enhance the ride by building up suspension. Skyrush is forgiven though because the bloody insane airtime more than makes up for the lack of suspension!! :--D


I think that the manufacturers could take even more advantage of the cable lift technology in the future. Imagine a ride that starts of slow, as a regular chain lift. But then, as you close in to the crest of the hill, the cable speeds up to Skyrush speed and gives you incredible airtime over the top! That way you would get the best of two worlds, plus a "mini launch" experience.

That's just my opinion though. Feel free to disagree with me :wink:

I don´t mind the lack of suspension that the chain provides, I prefer the feel of beeing relatively slow and all the sudden the train just pulls you down 200+ feet and you have the feeling of flying out of your seat when you´re riding in the back rows. With that beeing said it´s really just personal preference. Unfortunately I have yet to ride I305 ( #1 of my Coaster bucket list, I hate Lufthansa for beeing so d... expensive ) so I really can´t judge if the lift hill is too fast.I really like the idea of a hybrid lift ,that would be awesome looking up the lift and at the end fly down to the ground again. I think that on steel coasters the cable is the future once it gets as reliable as the chain. Intamins newer megas,gigas and megalites are all equipped with the cable so I guess on those coastertypes Intamin has moved away from the chain to establish the cable. On the wooden coasters however the sound of the chainlift is irreplaceable with a cable in my opinion

 

[rtotheizzo17]

^I-305 is listed as being able to do 1,350 RPH according to rcdb
Leviathan does not have a throughput listed, however some other B&M megas:
Apollo (slowest B&M list I have been on) 1,750
Shambhala 1,680
Silver Star 1,750
Diamondback 1,620

So, I would say THEORHETICALLY B&M's do about 300 more riders per hour, or anywhere from 2,400-3,600 more people in a day.

 

[GeForce]

Okay you might need an extra train to get equal numbers but Millenium Force does 1600 with 3 trains so the point that the capacity is not affected by the style of lifthill is still valid.

Also Silver Star is not comparable because in terms of operating rides, Europa Park is in a class of its own

 

[D1993]

^Millennium Force does 1600 an hour???????
LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
At BEST that ride will barely manage to skim into the 1200's.
The only thing I could say that is beneficial about the cable lifts, is that they save space. But look at the newer B&M's anyways, such as gatekeeper and leviathan, with very steep lifts and the trains get to the top pretty dam quick anyways. So there's not much of an advantage there, anyways.
Reliability .... OMG. We all know that chain lifts can have their fair share of problems, but cable lifts are a mechanical nightmare. Enough said.
Capacity .... by far, it doesn't really help improve things at all. Someone said I305 could hit a 1300 hour and that's probably because of such short ride time. But you would need a seriously impressive crew to hit numbers like that with 2 trains. It would be very difficult.
I obviously prefer chain lifts much, much better haha. The click clack, the anticipation, the view, etc.
The best case scenario you could see capacity wise for a cable lift, would be if it ran 3 trains WITH a block brake. Otherwise it's not gonna help you much.

 

[Taxi]

^ I agree, cable lifts seem to be the way to go for parks short on space. They can get the coaster up higher using less space, when compared to a chain lift. They can quickly remove the train from the station, climb the hill faster, meaning the train will return back to the station quicker. Which all helps increases capacity, even if it is slim, it still helps.

Unless you want something as daring as SkyRush, MILF, I305.... and want it to fit. A chain lift seems to be the best way to go.

 

[D1993]

Plus, something that has ALWAYS really gotten on my nerves as a ride operator .....
With cable lifts, the moment that you say 'clear' and enable the ride for a dispatch, you have to wait a good amount of time from when you originally pushed those buttons until the train actually takes off. Bugs me so much.
But with chain lifts of course, the moment you say 'clear' and hit those buttons, the train moves instantly, there is no delay.

 

[rtotheizzo17]

Plus, something that has ALWAYS really gotten on my nerves as a ride operator .....
With cable lifts, the moment that you say 'clear' and enable the ride for a dispatch, you have to wait a good amount of time from when you originally pushed those buttons until the train actually takes off. Bugs me so much.
But with chain lifts of course, the moment you say 'clear' and hit those buttons, the train moves instantly, there is no delay.

That depends entirely on the manufacturer as well as the ride system. I have worked B&M's (specifically floorless models but have seen it on an invert and a standard looper) that have a good delay (3-5 seconds?).

Also, the verbal clear is so regional park, do you Cedar Point Ops still have to say check at every restraint?

 

[GeForce]

^Millennium Force does 1600 an hour???????


Reliability .... OMG. We all know that chain lifts can have their fair share of problems, but cable lifts are a mechanical nightmare. Enough said.

I checked various sited including rcdb.com and found numbers from 1300-1600 so that´s where the numbers come from.

I don´t get why cables are supposed to be a "mechanical nightmare". I´m aware of the problems I305 has had this summer and MF in 2009 but other than that cables have been pretty reliable on all the other coasters. Chains have snapped too if they are just faster to fix since the technology has been around longer. If you refering to maintenance when it`s broken as a "mechanical nightmare" you have a valid point. However if you´re implementing that the technology itself is a nightmare I´m not so sure about that.
If it would be a that bad why is it that Intamin is equipping all its new Coasters with a cable ? Even their Multi-Inversion Coasters who are perfectly fine with a traditional chain are using the cablelift. Coaster which would have enough space to operate with a chain.