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Thorpe Park | Project Exodus | Mack Hyper Coaster? (UK's tallest coaster) | 2023/2024

Coasterwaffle

Roller Poster
Doesn't look too be enough room to do so imo, so I think the current layout will pretty much stick.
I think that is veru much possible for the ride to do somewhat of a helix at the end, so instead of going in the brakes, it goes next to them and makes maybe a kind of oscelating helix like velocicoaster next to/around the splash plaza, and than go into the brakes
 

Matt N

CF Legend
Based on the description in the video, I think whether or not the maximum negative g ends up being -1.8G hangs largely on how much speed that splashdown shaves off, as based on the creator’s description of forces in the comments, I think the low wave turn and final hill into the brakes packed by far the strongest ejector compared to the other moments in the ride.

In case you’re curious, their description of the element forces was as follows:
Insane first drop, ejector out of the non-inverting Immelmann, consistent strong floater on the outerbank with some nice whip on the inversion coming out of it, sustained hangtime on the dive stall, and STUPID ejector on the wave turn and final airtime hill.

For what it’s worth, I’d say that the splashdown looked to shave off very little, if any, speed in the rendering. I’m unsure whether the speed will be trimmed more in real life or whether it might not be trimmed at all.
 

Nicky Borrill

Strata Poster
Based on the description in the video, I think whether or not the maximum negative g ends up being -1.8G hangs largely on how much speed that splashdown shaves off, as based on the creator’s description of forces in the comments, I think the low wave turn and final hill into the brakes packed by far the strongest ejector compared to the other moments in the ride.

In case you’re curious, their description of the element forces was as follows:


For what it’s worth, I’d say that the splashdown looked to shave off very little, if any, speed in the rendering. I’m unsure whether the speed will be trimmed more in real life or whether it might not be trimmed at all.
I'm looking at the first drop as the best moment imo. I think it will be trimmed by the splashdown before the wave turn. No doubt these moments after will still deliver, but I don't think it will be as crazy as in that example.

So if correct, and layout stays that way, we're looking at 5 good airtime moments (as I said yesterday) which is amazing for a UK coaster... 🤞🤞🤞
 
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pvnks

Mega Poster
I’ll pay for @Nicky Borrill and @Matt N to go off to Energylandia together providing that I can retain sole ownership of all corresponding franchise rights (I’m thinking… documentary, film, TV series, ladybird book and best of all the sweet, sweet merch ).
Been there and done that with @Nicky Borrill and can say from experience; I couldn't keep up with the ******* chaining Hyperion over and over!

Borrill by TKO in Round 8.


On topic though; of all things to be excited about, that shot of the lakeside plaza fills me with joy. Can't wait to take in that view!
 

JoshC.

Strata Poster
Although I also wouldn't hold your breath that the layout will change, because Thorpe have submitted the land area they want planning permission to change to the council. So afaik, they could only extend the coaster WITHIN the red box, which wouldn't really be doable:-
Technical point: Thorpe haven't submitted anything to the council. They can, theoretically, do anything at this stage still.

However, the point of this consultation is to get feedback on what they're going to submit. So it would certainly be strange if any changes occurred outside of the zone marked by the red line.

I somewhat agree, although the Chessington coaster didn't change at all between the concept art and the submitted plans, which DO have to be taken as gospel afaik. So when we see the submitted plans for this development come
I think the Chessington one sets a good precedent for what to expect. I can't imagine there being many changes at all, let alone to the layout.

For the consultation the only parts of the layout relevant and need to be completely accurate will be the tallest parts.

The low parts aren’t going to be in view for the locals. So I do wonder if we could see some improvement on the layout towards the end.
This is also true however. The main thing at this stage is that they need to show the high points and discuss noise impacts. With Chessington's coaster, it's a physically short piece of track. Fixing those high points, there was basically no wiggle room to change the rest of the layout.

This is different, especially with the latter parts of the ride. There's definitely room to make low level changes and additions. However, I can't see them doing it. At this point, the layout must be pretty firmed up. I guess they could also use this period to gauge fan reaction and make tweaks.

However, going back to a point I mentioned earlier, I think the layout was designed to be punchy, and hit hard so that at the end, it leaves you begging for me. Chucking in a helix, a couple of airtime hills or whatever is just going to create a tamer ending and go against that.

Saw and Wickerman both had improvements made to their final layouts.
Saw's layout change required planning permission and went in around May 2008, after construction had started. I don't think there was any doubt to it being approved, but that was a different scenario.

Wickerman's changes only happened because Wardley saw the plans and gave his opinion. Effectively it only occurred because of an external influence.

Smiler’s layout ended up being different from the initial plans released too.
Technically not. The layout did not show all the inversions, but if you were to draw an overhead view of the layout as a line, the final layout and submitted layout would have looked exactly the same.

This is because a large part of Alton Towers is covered by a General Development Order (GDO). To simplify what that means: they can basically build whatever they like within these regions, up to agreed upon guidelines. The application for Smiler was only submitted because the station building required approval because it didn't fit within those guidelines.
The layout and mention of a coaster was included for reference and courtesy, and didn't need to be accurate.

When Thorpe submit plans, they have to be accurate to the mm, from layout, supports, etc down to the type of fence. Obviously no plans have been submitted yet, but I would not be surprised if some of the visuals seen are used in the application.

Plus that brake run looks very long I can’t imagine that being totally accurate.

If the ride is going to be carrying a lot of speed at the end, a long brake run could be a logical step.
Also, because the transfer track for the maintenance building will have to be behind the station, space for that will need to be included too, and that may need to be separate to the brake run.


Another point worth raising is that very few supports/footers will go in the lake. It's been mentioned on many occasions in previous applications the park have submitted that they avoid placing footers in the lake as much as possible, both for environmental and practical reasons. This wasn't discussed at the public consultation, but in hindsight it's something I wish I took the opportunity to find out more about.

The overhead visual suggests 5 footers in the lake, as well as some land infill so the rest do not go in the lake. Changing the layout may lead to more, which could be a potential issue.

Incidentally, I wonder if that's the reason for the dense support structure shown? A lot of the track borders being over the lake, so maybe they're reducing the number of footers to avoid putting more in the lake, and having to compensate with the weird supports.
 

Matt N

CF Legend
I don't know about you guys, but looking at the rendering and the layout we have, this ride looks like it could be a back row coaster based on the types of elements on offer; I can sense the back will offer far stronger airtime and whip on the drop, and I also think the strongest airtime when exiting the Immelmann will be felt on the back if Icon's similar element is anything to go by.
 

CrashCoaster

CF Legend
I don't know about you guys, but looking at the rendering and the layout we have, this ride looks like it could be a back row coaster based on the types of elements on offer; I can sense the back will offer far stronger airtime and whip on the drop, and I also think the strongest airtime when exiting the Immelmann will be felt on the back if Icon's similar element is anything to go by.
I completely agree, for airtime, whip and forces this does look like a back row ride.

On another note, I wonder if John Wardley had any involvement with this project whatsoever - he does only seem to be semi-retired, after all.
 

Nicky Borrill

Strata Poster
I don't know about you guys, but looking at the rendering and the layout we have, this ride looks like it could be a back row coaster based on the types of elements on offer; I can sense the back will offer far stronger airtime and whip on the drop, and I also think the strongest airtime when exiting the Immelmann will be felt on the back if Icon's similar element is anything to go by.
I think it looks that way... If that drop rides the way I think it will, you're gonna want to be in the back to get ejected into that twist... The front will just slowly lower you into it.
 

Intamin Forever

Mega Poster
I don't want to sound disappointed, but i am disappointed, mainly because Thorpe have designed a ride that is only really centred around its height, and haven't thought about how they could use the speed effectively, and as we have seen from the countless recreations on Nolimits 2, the ride still has tons of speed going into the brakes.
Something i have learned being in this industry is that coasters get designed to lose speed at the end, not still have the same kind of speed.

Plus, i don't know if anyone has noticed, but this ride is bloody short.
 

Matt N

CF Legend
I do wonder whether this ride could be very different on the front and back, as the elements that many are saying they think look like the ride's strongest (for instance, the drop) look as though the bulk of their airtime and possibly whip are situated towards the back. Do we reckon this will be like Wicker Man, where everyone begs for the back? (Although with that being said, I think Wicker Man is still a cracking coaster on the front, and it's far from the biggest difference between front and back I've ridden!)

Or could there be some elements that are preferred in the front, making the front an equally fine choice?

In terms of the drop; I know they're likely going to be very different rides to one another, but Big One's twisted first drop is not all that dissimilar to what Exodus will have, and I did notice that that had far more whip on the back than in the front. Admittedly, I still felt no airtime on Big One's drop at the back, whereas I imagine Exodus' drop likely will have airtime of some description, and the Big One's increased whip meant the drop felt excruciatingly rough on the back and I actually preferred the front for this reason as well as the increased sense of speed, while I imagine Exodus' whip will be far smoother, but the two drops aren't that dissimilar to each other!
 

Nicky Borrill

Strata Poster
Been there and done that with @Nicky Borrill and can say from experience; I couldn't keep up with the ******* chaining Hyperion over and over!

Borrill by TKO in Round 8.


On topic though; of all things to be excited about, that shot of the lakeside plaza fills me with joy. Can't wait to take in that view!
They've changed the queues now, so that you don't have to go all the way around when it's quiet... If only they'd done this that week? 🙈🤣🤣
 

Nicky Borrill

Strata Poster
I do wonder whether this ride could be very different on the front and back, as the elements that many are saying they think look like the ride's strongest (for instance, the drop) look as though the bulk of their airtime and possibly whip are situated towards the back. Do we reckon this will be like Wicker Man, where everyone begs for the back? (Although with that being said, I think Wicker Man is still a cracking coaster on the front, and it's far from the biggest difference between front and back I've ridden!)

Or could there be some elements that are preferred in the front, making the front an equally fine choice?

In terms of the drop; I know they're likely going to be very different rides to one another, but Big One's twisted first drop is not all that dissimilar to what Exodus will have, and I did notice that that had far more whip on the back than in the front. Admittedly, I still felt no airtime on Big One's drop at the back, whereas I imagine Exodus' drop likely will have airtime of some description, and the Big One's increased whip meant the drop felt excruciatingly rough on the back and I actually preferred the front for this reason as well as the increased sense of speed, while I imagine Exodus' whip will be far smoother, but the two drops aren't that dissimilar to each other!
This is NOTHING like the big one drop. The airtime on the drops of coasters like this, Hyperion, Mako, Shambhala, Zadra etc is caused by how steep the drop is, and how tight the angle at the peak of the lift hill is.

This is the Big one

3BB6402900000578-0-image-m-86_1483092247388.jpg

This is Zadra

Zadra at Energylandia 52.jpg

And this is the new coaster... (best shot we have)

ezgif.com-gif-maker.jpg

That thing is going to try to yeet you from your seat so hard you'll feel like one of those stretch armstrong toys!!!
 

Matt N

CF Legend
This is NOTHING like the big one drop. The airtime on the drops of coasters like this, Hyperion, Mako, Shambhala, Zadra etc is caused by how steep the drop is, and how tight the angle at the peak of the lift hill is.

This is the Big one

View attachment 14981

This is Zadra

View attachment 14982

And this is the new coaster... (best shot we have)

View attachment 14983

That thing is going to try to yeet you from your seat so hard you'll feel like one of those stretch armstrong toys!!!
Oh wow; that drop on the back will generate far more airtime than Big One's, surely?

Seeing those pictures has also surprised me in that I didn't know that the Big One's drop started that shallow; I thought the drop was a decent 65 degrees? That peak angle must come further down, then...
 

Rob Coasters

Mega Poster
I don't want to sound disappointed, but i am disappointed, mainly because Thorpe have designed a ride that is only really centred around its height, and haven't thought about how they could use the speed effectively, and as we have seen from the countless recreations on Nolimits 2, the ride still has tons of speed going into the brakes.
Something i have learned being in this industry is that coasters get designed to lose speed at the end, not still have the same kind of speed.

Plus, i don't know if anyone has noticed, but this ride is bloody short.
I mean Stealth is also centered around its speed and people are constantly in line to reride that...

But onto the point. Right now Thorpe is in a position where they're losing attendance fast because it's very clear that these walkthroughs and dark rides and rethemes are not working in terms of getting people back in. The guests are bored of that and Thorpe have been open about determining that nothing but a massive coaster will get them back in.

So they have to think up something fast. Something that WILL get people back through those entrance gates, something that is very visible, something that will make people think "oh my God I need to go (back)". If they wanted to extend the layout to please enthusiasts, then it's very possible that we would have to wait another good year or three for them to scramble up the money to extend it on top of attendance falling harder and harder by the years.

They have to get something up quickly - and this is the perfect layout for them. It gets the point across, people will see that goliath structure and think "I'm getting a ticket and a season pass right now".

If Thorpe's attendance was on the up then yes a layout being this short would've been a bit of a kick in the shin because we know they could've done more - but attendance is not on the up at all and they have to throw something, anything up. And that's why this current layout works so well. It's the UK's tallest coaster, with every element that will eject you from your seat sideways upwards and downwards several times.

So what am I saying here? Thorpe's attendance is in the gutter and they have to think something up with the money they currently have. And they got this. And it's incredible. This isn't a "it's short because they can't be arsed" thing, this is a "it's short because they need a world-class coaster with X budget RIGHT NOW" thing.
 

Nicky Borrill

Strata Poster
Oh wow; that drop on the back will generate far more airtime than Big One's, surely?

Seeing those pictures has also surprised me in that I didn't know that the Big One's drop started that shallow; I thought the drop was a decent 65 degrees? That peak angle must come further down, then...
I think it probably comes from before it was reprofiled... When it used to actually give you airtime...

Before

blackpool-roller-coaster-postcard-47688-p.jpg

After

0_Blackpool-Pleasure-BeachBlackpoolLancashirePic-Andrew-Teebay.jpg
 

Matt N

CF Legend
If you're disappointed in the length of this ride as well as the element choices compared to a "regular" hyper coaster, I've got a potential comparison for you that I'd say shows promise; I actually think that in many ways, Exodus is quite comparable to Goliath at Six Flags Great America.

Now I know that Goliath is an RMC woodie, a totally different kettle of fish to Exodus, a steel coaster that's looking likely to be a Mack Hyper Coaster, but I think that the two actually share many similarities with one another:
  • Both are fairly large rides; while I know Goliath is only 165ft tall with a 180ft drop, that height is still nothing to be sniffed at, in my opinion, particularly for a wooden coaster. Exodus, on the other hand, is 236ft.
  • Both lack "traditional" airtime elements in stark contrast to others of their type.
  • Both rides' layouts consist primarily of a few big, high elements strung together in a "bam, bam, bam" type pattern, with no low elements in between. (Isn't Goliath primarily the big u-turn, the dive loop, the zero-g stall and the smaller u-turn before it hits the brake run?)
  • Both rides have length cited as a key con; the main thing I always hear cited as the main drawback of SFGAm's Goliath is how "cripplingly short" it is, and similarly to Exodus, it motors at pace into a very long brake run. In fact, as a point of reference, Goliath actually has no more "main" elements than Exodus does, if not slightly less.
The reason I bring Goliath up is that in spite of its length, Goliath is often rated very highly. Many members who've been to the USA and ridden Goliath cite it as among their favourite RMCs due to how strong its pacing and individual elements are. Yes, it might not be the longest RMC on Earth, but I've heard that it really delivers in a big way on a pound-for-pound basis; the elements it has are apparently incredible!

And if you look more widely; Goliath certainly holds its own over on Captain Coaster (https://captaincoaster.com/en/coasters/goliath-six-flags-great-america)! It currently ranks #51 in the world, with a score of 94.5% (meaning an average rating of around 9.5/10, or somewhere between 4.5/5 and 5/5), and if we compare it to European coasters and UK coasters, Goliath would rank #18 in Europe and #2 in the UK; it's only 4 spots lower and less than 1% lower than Nemesis, for reference. In terms of the UK, Goliath is certainly far closer to Nemesis in rating than it is to the next highest ranked UK coaster (Icon, at #98 in the world and #28 in Europe, for reference).

So my basic point is; length and different element choices may not let this coaster down as much as some think. I know that comparing Exodus to an RMC woodie may seem like a moot point, but if the ride is anything like Goliath in how that ride is shorter and lacking in "traditional" airtime elements, but packs a huge punch on a pound-for-pound basis and delivers huge thrills within the elements it has, then I think we could be in for a real treat here!
 

Screaming Coasters

Strata Poster
^ The difference with Goliath and Exodus is that Goliath has quicker elements, so it has room to do more stuff within a relatively short time. Exodus goes through its circuit taking up most of its time going through each singular element. So Exodus doesn't really do much. Goliath has multiple things, Exodus has like 4 different things and done.

Layout aside, I have a bit of an issue with theme. Considering we haven't seen exactly what this is, all that we know is that the ride is going to be painted white, but I can't help feel that it's going to be such a clash within that area of the park. Unless the whole place is redeveloped, including Saw, this thematically won't flow at all. Thorpe, let us be honest, doesn't have much flow as it is, but at least things sorta blend in a trash sorta way. This is just blanc plonk.
 

JoshC.

Strata Poster
Layout aside, I have a bit of an issue with theme. Considering we haven't seen exactly what this is, all that we know is that the ride is going to be painted white, but I can't help feel that it's going to be such a clash within that area of the park. Unless the whole place is redeveloped, including Saw, this thematically won't flow at all. Thorpe, let us be honest, doesn't have much flow as it is, but at least things sorta blend in a trash sorta way. This is just blanc plonk.

There has been nothing said about theme. Even track colour isn't confirmed; all that's been said is they're looking into the idea of having two colours for the track, like Stealth, with the higher points coloured to blend into the surroundings.

I get the concern, but I think it's a bit soon to talk about potential theme clashes/blends, given how little we have to go on at the moment.
 
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