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Six Flags Over Texas new que for New Texas Giant

Chris Coasters

Strata Poster
http://www.screamscape.com/html/six_fla ... _texas.htm

I originally saw this on facebook from rcdb but they reposted the above article from screamscape. So Over Texas has came up with a solution for the incident last year. Six Flags Over Texas is extending the procedure in which it takes for riders to go on New Texas Giant. They will be taking 12-15 people at a time and then a operator will go over all the rules and regulations to ride the ride. Then each person will sit in a test seat and if they can't fit they can't ride. Once all the people are done they go and ride and the cycle will repeat. This will make for a much longer que. I really hope this doesn't become a trend with other rides at Six Flags parks.

Thoughts?
 

Hixee

Flojector
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Social Media Team
Well that's... interesting.

If they're going to employ this technique in the long run (which we really need to hope they don't) they'd have to at least add another couple of test seats and try to use them in parallel to ease the congestion. A system as inefficient as that is bound to cause loads of complaints, surely?
 

Hyde

Matt SR
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
This is dumb.

Yeah I know I'm a Cedar Fair fanboy, but let's look at their loading procedure for high profile rides:

- Test seat at the beginning of the queue, encourage overweight/suspect riders to test the seat before entering the queue.
- Tighten/readjust restraints if needed, as was the case for MF following the Superman incident of the same nature as NTG.
- Focus on ride op retraining for new procedure and safety protocol.

These new objectives can be achieved elsewhere outside of the ride station, and not have as large an impact on load time.
 

TilenB

Strata Poster
Well, it seems that somebody from Six Flags' management has gone to one of the Happy Valley parks :)
I wonder if the riders will have to do stretching exercises as well. :D
 

therick311

Mega Poster
While I agree that this is stupid and pointless, it is possible to do this without impacting overall wait time.

As long as the orientation has at least an equal throughput to the ride itself, it won't impact wait times. Almost like a really lame pre-show.

However, I don't have faith that Six Flags will figure this out.
 

rtotheizzo17

Hyper Poster
^highly doubt you can get an entire train of people to test one seat after receiving verbal instructions as quickly as you can load a full train of seats.
 

Hobbes

Mega Poster
therick311 said:
As long as the orientation has at least an equal throughput to the ride itself, it won't impact wait times.
Having 12-15 people at a time receive verbal instructions, and all sit in a test seat, and probably test the restraints in the test seat...yeah I see no way this could match the ride throughput.

This is just stupid :x
 

therick311

Mega Poster
Let me clarify. With the current procedure, yes wait times will increase. What I was saying is that if Six Flags really thinks this sort of thing is necessary, it could be done in a way that won't impact wait times.

It would likely require taking larger groups, and adding test seats. But again, I don't think Six Flags will figure this out.
 

tomahawk

Strata Poster
This is just moronic. Slap some OTSR's on that bitch and call it a day. Yeah, it could make some of the ejector pretty painful, but it's better than this.
 

NAPayne31

Mega Poster
At the least they could implement this method at the beginning of the queue and have multiple test seats with employees. They test before they enter the queue cutting out the actual queue wait for those that are unable to ride.
 

bmac

Giga Poster
Thankfully this just seems to be at SFoT for now. Have no word about this procedure being implemented at any other Six Flags park, even SFFT.
 

BBH

Giga Poster
What is this, Six Flags over Happy Valley? If you're going to make people use test seats, put several of them out front and give people the green or the red. This may be the most inefficient system for almost anything I've heard in a long time...
 

CoasterCrazy

Giga Poster
Oh dear. Well, lets at least hope this doesn't give merlin any 'good ideas...'

Frankly, I'm surprised it isn't April the 1st. Fair, somebody died on the ride, but this is just extreme and unsolicited.

Firstly, I condemn it because this portrays NTG (and all the other RMCs which are STILL being purchased by Six Flags parks) as unsafe, which is the best way to diminish attendance. It'll most likely make riders nervous, to an extent that they fail to enjoy the ride.

Of course, it'll also horribly impact throughput. I sincerely hope re-riders will be somehow able to skip the pre-amble. Plus, I pity the employee who has to repeat the speech hundreds of times a day - and airline crew thought their job was repetitive.

It just seems so daft when equally effective techniques are considered:
-A ride safety video playing on the monitors
-A blatant sign on the airgates or on the cars themselves
-The ride operator instructing guests on how to do two simple things. Honestly, it's as simple as tie seatbelt, lower restraint, check, dispatch. Of course, the op needs announce it quickly, before half the guests lower the lap bar immediately without contemplating the existence of a secondary restraint.
-Or even, scrapping the seatbelts and opting for more 'clicks' and more rigorous operating procedures.

In fact, I personally believe guests themselves should be liable for their own seatbelts, so time is saved checking them. It's not like they'll ever be needed to restrain a guest, so long as operating procedures are followed. Everyone is aware of how to do seatbelts - you don't run to and sue the car manufacturer because someone wasn't wearing their seatbelt and was injured in a crash. You could do wonders to the throughputs of millennium flyers with that technique and I would hope the GP would be capable of such basic tasks.

This leads me to think - how high could the throughput be on an ERT session with enthusiasts securing, and checking their own restraints? Depends on block sections I guess.
 

bmac

Giga Poster
CoasterCrazy said:
Plus, I pity the employee who has to repeat the speech hundreds of times a day - and airline crew thought their job was repetitive.

Thankfully they're cycled around about every hour.

It just seems so daft when equally effective techniques are considered:
-A ride safety video playing on the monitors
-A blatant sign on the airgates or on the cars themselves
-The ride operator instructing guests on how to do two simple things. Honestly, it's as simple as tie seatbelt, lower restraint, check, dispatch. Of course, the op needs announce it quickly, before half the guests lower the lap bar immediately without contemplating the existence of a secondary restraint.
-Or even, scrapping the seatbelts and opting for more 'clicks' and more rigorous operating procedures.

Ever been to a park? Bizarro at GAdv has 4 signs in the queue telling large guests that they need to use row 5, we still end up kicking about 20 people off the train in a day because they didn't see, read, or just flat out ignored the signs. It's as blatant as you can get without actually smacking them in the face with the broad side of a barn. You also apparently don't realize that there are multiple systems for restraining riders on a train, hydraulics being one of them. "Clicks" are only relevant for the ratcheting lap bars, which none of the RMC trains use. They instead rely on a minimum down position and sensors to confirm that everything is functioning (which communicate the Operator Panel and allow the train to be dispatched). Trust me the system is fine as it is, no need to bloat it with babble.

In fact, I personally believe guests themselves should be liable for their own seatbelts, so time is saved checking them.

Go to Hersheypark, you'll love them. They're the only park on the east coast that doesn't actively check restraints, instead they just use two fingers or their eyes and tell you you're good to go. On rides like Skyrush it does me little comfort when the harness is barely touched and I'm dispatched out of the station. Six Flags requires attendants to push down on restraints, pull up on them, check the safety belts, and then visually scan and dispatch the train. Making guests liable for buckling themselves in is asking for even more trouble compared to the little good it'd do to just haphazardly dispatch a train.

It's not like they'll ever be needed to restrain a guest, so long as operating procedures are followed.

They're there as a redundancy check and as a method to make sure that the harness is in a minimum down position. Again getting rid of them on any and all rides, especially ones that require them, is a bad idea and will be asking for more trouble than the 'good' it'll bring in capacity.

Everyone is aware of how to do seatbelts - you don't run to and sue the car manufacturer because someone wasn't wearing their seatbelt and was injured in a crash. You could do wonders to the throughputs of millennium flyers with that technique and I would hope the GP would be capable of such basic tasks.

Again go to Hersheypark, you'll love their operating system. Their capacity is absolute garbage.

This leads me to think - how high could the throughput be on an ERT session with enthusiasts securing, and checking their own restraints? Depends on block sections I guess.

Often times even during ERT events people end up holding the ride from dispatching. It's happened at the Riding of the Bull every year when the train doesn't verify for dispatch. You'd think a group of people who know what they're doing would help capacity, but all that's really needed is a fast crew, and as little outside distractions as possible (loose articles, fancy second ride wristbands, people who need to take selfies on the train, etc.).

The current system in place at Six Flags parks is entirely for capacity, and those 'unnecessary hindrances' have a minimum effect on the target capacities on all the rides unless they completely and totally change the ride cycle procedure. Think of Cedar Fair's new Hyper seatbelts, and their system where they have to check the train once for seatbelts and a second time for the lapbars. That's a system that would hurt capacity, but if they just checked the belts and restraints at the same time it wouldn't have much of an effect on capacity even if one guest accidentally pulled the restraint down before putting on the seatbelt.

NTG's system is dumb, I'll give it that much. It's normal operating procedures however, fall on the same standards that every other ride in the chain is under. 3-point check, 5-point visual scan, dispatch. That's all.
 

CoasterCrazy

Giga Poster
bmac said:
Ever been to a park? Bizarro at GAdv has 4 signs in the queue telling large guests that they need to use row 5, we still end up kicking about 20 people off the train in a day because they didn't see, read, or just flat out ignored the signs. It's as blatant as you can get without actually smacking them in the face with the broad side of a barn. You also apparently don't realize that there are multiple systems for restraining riders on a train, hydraulics being one of them. "Clicks" are only relevant for the ratcheting lap bars, which none of the RMC trains use. They instead rely on a minimum down position and sensors to confirm that everything is functioning (which communicate the Operator Panel and allow the train to be dispatched). Trust me the system is fine as it is, no need to bloat it with babble.

Oddly enough, yes I have been to a theme park, which is exactly why I suggested the above techniques. Whilst it remains shocking that you still have to kick 20 people off a day, compared to the throughput of larger guests over the day, the fraction of guests who do indeed act irreverent of the signs is comparatively small, showing that the signs do work to an extent. Since you've made the point that the signs are 'as blatant as you can get', how much more blatant would the new NTG procedure be? You cannot guarantee everyone will be listening in a group of 10-15, just like it is in the classroom. Therefore, most of the methods I suggested would be equally effective in both communication and safety.

Also, I confess to not really knowing restraint systems; but the 'clicks' idea was merely an example. Computer settings can be changed too.

bmac said:
Go to Hersheypark, you'll love them. They're the only park on the east coast that doesn't actively check restraints, instead they just use two fingers or their eyes and tell you you're good to go. On rides like Skyrush it does me little comfort when the harness is barely touched and I'm dispatched out of the station. Six Flags requires attendants to push down on restraints, pull up on them, check the safety belts, and then visually scan and dispatch the train. Making guests liable for buckling themselves in is asking for even more trouble compared to the little good it'd do to just haphazardly dispatch a train.

They're there as a redundancy check and as a method to make sure that the harness is in a minimum down position. Again getting rid of them on any and all rides, especially ones that require them, is a bad idea and will be asking for more trouble than the 'good' it'll bring in capacity.

Remember this is not about how the primary restraints are checked nor getting rid of seatbelts completely. I'm talking about lap bars here; in OSTRs, the belt and restraint are one integrated package. I'm not advising the complete ditching of any kind of checking, merely saying all the operators should do is check the primary restraint, and before that occurs, they should be asked to buckle up and pull on their seatbelts themselves, saving a great deal of time and effort where the ops need not go back and forth checking seatbelts, waiting, then checking restraints. It is for this reason that Scorpion dispatches more quickly than Gwazi.

bmac said:
NTG's system is dumb, I'll give it that much. It's normal operating procedures however, fall on the same standards that every other ride in the chain is under. 3-point check, 5-point visual scan, dispatch. That's all.

Did I ever say anything about the current operating procedures? Yes, it's undoubtedly slower due to seatbelts, but I believe that to be a necessary step after the incident, to improve the feeling of security and to evoke how changes have been made in response. The point I was making was that the normal operating procedures across 'every other ride in the chain' are adequate, and there is little need to change them so drastically. My idea concerning the seatbelts is a small amendment they could make to further enhance their capacity, even if it is a little idealised.
 

rtotheizzo17

Hyper Poster
^In fairness Tampa might be the only park that checks seatbelts then goes back and checks restraints. Most parks do them both at the same time.

Also, I agree better signage and a more proactive approach is the best way to attack this "issue". When you think about it 20 people over the course of a day is less than 1% of riders of that ride, seems like a lot when you are telling the fatty to beat it but in actually it isn't.
 

bmac

Giga Poster
rtotheizzo17 said:
^In fairness Tampa might be the only park that checks seatbelts then goes back and checks restraints. Most parks do them both at the same time.

Of all the parks I've been to so far they're the only ones who 'double check' their work across all rides in the park. At SFA last year they had the 'seatbelts, then restraints order' for only Roar, and my friend who visits the park regularly said they never did it all the years before (this was before NTG happened, too). Pretty much every other park does both at the same time, like you said.

Also, I agree better signage and a more proactive approach is the best way to attack this "issue". When you think about it 20 people over the course of a day is less than 1% of riders of that ride, seems like a lot when you are telling the fatty to beat it but in actually it isn't.

For a ride like El Toro where a guest that falls in that grey area between getting denied and being able to ride every other ride, it happens a little more often but still not enough to affect overall capacity. You're talking from a 10-6 day a little more than 2 people being kicked off an hour, something that doesn't affect everyone and we end up giving those people exit passes for other rides.

For a ride like Bizarro, with only one 'Big Boy' seat I think a better system would be to add more seats that can accommodate larger riders. The seats are the same size, just there's two belts and they're longer than every other seatbelt on the train. Having two on each row from 3 through 5 would make the issue even less common, and it'd save people strife when large riders come through the exit since we can change up the rows we hold. Yesterday even though Bizarro was only open for 3 hours we were at target capacity the entire time, and we held two rows for a performing group along with heaps of people coming through the exit with passes. Through that entire time we had to boot 6 people off the ride, and 3 we held row 5 so they could get their rides in.

Basically what I'm saying is the overall system is weird, but it's far from broken besides BGT's overly cautious operating procedures.
 
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