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Phantasialand | F. L. Y. | Vekoma Launched Flying Coaster

Coaster_Greif

New Member
How??? Klugheim looks staggeringly detailed! Also, where is Phantasialand getting all their money from, as they only get just under 2 million per year and they are an independent park. Does the park's owner have a secret gold mine in his back garden or something?
Well, the park has the Buisness to Pleasure program (all-in-one events for companies), several event locations for weddings etc., Fantisima, the shuttle busses, a good running gastronomy and two big hotels.
 

Dar

Member
Maybe they seem to be going so slow because they need crane/cehicle access to the back areas?
 

Schlussbremse

New Member
This construction site can not be compared with any other usual coaster site. The hole coaster seems to be completely integrated in an entire "City" like environment on multiple layers. We are not talking about "a little bit of concrete". Almost the entire 7000 square meters are paved and they seem to build up a giant Tertris or LEGO puzzle.
Vital parts (Launch, break run, station, transfer track and maintenance) are installed at the very bottom layer. There is not much space for logistics and equipment. Even one of the large tower cranes seems to be in the way of the track exiting the launch - and therefore maybe has to be removed before track can be installed here.
The site reveals more and more of its huge complexity. Plus it is still not the easiest ground to build on. The park resides on top of a former mining area which holds many surprises and challenges for such projects.
So I would not say, "they are taking it slow", I would rather say they are proceeding at the right and proper pace to master those challenges.
 

Pokemaniac

Mountain monkey
Staff member
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There's also the fact that ground works take a fair amount of time, and after that I believe there will be a lot of concrete pouring (that is, the actual pouring happens after rebar is prepared, which is a lengthy process in itself). And after pouring, you need to wait for the concrete to cure before continuing any further works. If the foundations aren't completely ready before you start putting loads of them, they can break and require some seriously expensive repairs. It makes sense to go slow in the initial phase, then speed up once the foundation work is done and the foundations are ready to carry the loads put on them.
 

CSLKennyNI

Active Member
The whole proces could go so much faster, but the CEO of PhL doesnt wat to 'rush' it. He is pretty stingy. Especially the pouring concrete progress. If he can save money, he will do it. Okay, its pretty expensive, but them this coaster could being build souch faster.
Hahaha. I really don't want to be mean but you're full of rubbish.

Firstly Phantasialand doesn't have a CEO. It's a family owned and managed park.

Secondly, stingy? Wrong word to describe a park that invests more in new attractions than anyother park in Europa and is constantly spending money on improvements, redoing theming and adding more theming.
Rookburgh is one of the most complex theme park objects ever attempted.

It's extremely difficult (and expensive) to dig at PHL due to ground conditions. They've carved out a huge hunk of ground to make a large pit. And are building up an area consisting of multiple levels intertwined with a coaster and god knows what else.
Compare this to Klugheim while it is also a complex area interwined with a coaster it was built on an existing flat bit of land. Only major digging required was for the launch trench and couple small tunnels. The amount of clearing and prepared work the site for Rookburgh needed is unparalleled.

The cranes and construction vehicles on site cost money to hire. Delaying construction would cost them a lot of money every day. Technically you could say it would be in the park's best interests to do things as quickly as possible to make it cheaper.
And one way or another the concrete needs to be poured at some point. You can't save money in anyway there.

Also no sensible park rushes a project. Be it Phantasia, Europa, Liseberg or even Disney. They do things properly and as they should be done.
Especially if they plan to open it in 2019. (As per the 3 year major investment cycle: 2013 - Chiapas, 2016 - Klugheim, 2019 - Rookburgh) Opening it sooner, especially considering how many millions these projects cost, would make no sense.

Wow. This was great, gave me a good laugh to cheer me up after hearing about Europa's fire.
 

Ethan

Well-Known Member
But there is only one man responsible for the whole build at phl. Maybe stingy is not the word, but he is a bit too much watching his money. If you want a quality new gigant never seen before good working prototype coaster, you know that is going to cost some money. Normally when Vekoma arrives, all the concrete is done, but a now, this bit is done, and after a weeks this sqaure foot. If he decided to do everything at once (but is more expensive because its not expensive to build because of the economics), it could safe so much time. Thats everything I want to say. I respect what he does, but I would personally not have done that.
I think we should leave the construction planning and organisation to those who actually know what they're doing. The park aren't stupid and they know exactly what they're doing, so let's leave them to it and be thankful we're probably going to be treated with one of the best themed environments on the planet.
 

CSLKennyNI

Active Member
But there is only one man responsible for the whole build at phl. Maybe stingy is not the word, but he is a bit too much watching his money. If you want a quality new gigant never seen before good working prototype coaster, you know that is going to cost some money. Normally when Vekoma arrives, all the concrete is done, but a now, this bit is done, and after a weeks this sqaure foot. If he decided to do everything at once (but is more expensive because its not expensive to build because of the economics), it could safe so much time. Thats everything I want to say. I respect what he does, but I would personally not have done that.

Btw ''Rookburgh is one of the most complex theme park objects ever attempted.'' It is. It's like a big backyard with a big height difference and then you decided to build the longest flying coaster in the world.
How can you possibly do it all at once. It is a layer construction site. It needs to be done bit by bit. That's how it works.
And like I said that only costs them a lot of more money. It would be more economical to do things quicker but that's impossible due to the nature of the project.

As Ethan said please leave the construction planning to people who actually know what they are doing.
 
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Brian

New Member
How can you possible do it all at once. It is a layer construction site. It needs to be done bit my bit. That's how it works.
And like I said that only costs them a lot of more money. It would be more economical to do things quicker but that's impossible due to the nature of the project.

As Ethan said please leave the construction planning to people who actually know what they are doing.
First you do the ground work. Then you do pour concrete, thats how it works. Apperently the last one is pretty expensive to do now because whole Germany is building things. What I try to say for I think now the 3rd time, it could go so much faster if he decided to do it all at once. My source is very narrow involved with the build of fly. I am not replying anymore in this discussion. I just share what I hear and I hope you will respect that.
 

CSLKennyNI

Active Member
First you do the ground work. Then you do pour concrete, thats how it works. Apperently the last one is pretty expensive to do now because whole Germany is building things. What I try to say for I think now the 3rd time, it could go so much faster if he decided to do it all at once. My source is very narrow involved with the build of fly. I am not replying anymore in this discussion. I just share what I hear and I hope you will respect that.
They did the ground work. Then poured the concrete foundations that they could do - there was of course a large ramp of earth so construction vehicles could access the site. Once that was done and then over Winter that ramp was removed. And only then could they pour the concrete foundations for the rest of the lower level.
Then they put in the track on that level. Then pour the next level of concrete forming the roofs for the underground level and ground for the upper level and then they continue that cycle of building upwards and in phases depending on accessibility for construction vehicles.
So you cannot do all the concrete at once as that would be physically impossible.

I'm sorry but your source is incorrect. Thanks for your time.
 

Brian

New Member
Maybe not all at once, but more than they do / did now. Its expensive to build now and that is why he decides to do it slower than it could.

And guys I bet that my source is one the best once you can get. I could say what he exactly does but that will bring him in trouble and I respect that.

This coaster will be the best coaster in the park if it is smooth. And I believe that it will because the recent Vekoma's are BM quality.
 

CSLKennyNI

Active Member
This is getting boring now...

Maybe not all at once, but more than they do / did now. Its expensive to build now and that is why he decides to do it slower than it could.
As everyone has been already saying that does not make any logical sense. Whether you do it slowly or not you still have to pay for the same amount of concrete.
And no matter the cost of concrete as said before making the construction time longer would only cost them more money every day with the hired cranes and construction vehicles/equipment that are on site.

If you do all the ground levels at once you can pour the concrete all at once.
Btw at least one train is finished! I have seen it on a picture and its ready for transport!
As I previously said it wouldn't have been possible to pour the ground level all once. You can't magically transport cranes and vehicles down there they needed the big ramp. Look back at the pictures from last winter.

And only one train? Urgh, why not all 4! Bet Vekoma are being lazy and slow to save money... # Sarcasm Alert #

(given all the track and components have already been manufactured a while ago, the trains are almost certainly done as well. And sure we all have already seen the one train that was used on the test set up.)

Can this end here? No point discussing anything unless there is actual information with concrete evidence ;)
 

Fluorineer

Member
Even if we forget this whole concrete bollocks, how much does it even matter? It's not even in Phantasialand's interest to open Rookburgh this season, they're still getting Loveparade-esque attendance (greetings from Duisburg) just from Klugheim alone, while still spending tens of millions every offseason on improving everything that's already there. There's just not a single reason to veer away from the 3-year-investment-cycle right now.

Let's look at this economically, currently they're charging 47,50 € for single-day admission. If they happened to open up Rookburgh, that price is for sure going up, which means they would both crack the 50-bucks-mark (which is an important psychological border especially for pulling families into the park) and become more expensive than Europa Park, while only offering like half as many attractions. That's just not a very smart thing to do, and since they're pretty much stuck on their yearly attendance figures for ~8 years now, all their financial potential comes from their entrance fees, so I bet your ass they're being extremely careful with that to not screw it up.

Oh yeah, and I also mentioned a 3-year-investment-cycle above, you have to factor in that Phantasia's 3-year-investments exceed basically every existing investment-cycle of any theme-park. Let's say they open Rookburgh in 2019, what's next? According to the current rumours, China. If they were to revamp Geister-Rikscha, that would therefore count as a "smaller" investment, since I don't believe that would fall into this big cycle. But let's look at other parks, who refurbished or built somewhat similar attractions to that: Efteling with Symbolica. With a 35-million-euro price tag their heftiest investment to date. And I can tell you already, that will be exactly the kind of standard, Phantasia will be aiming at once Geister Rikscha ends up on the chopping block. Maybe they wont be pissing on Symbolica (maybe they even go for a totally different style of darkride or even a completely different ride) but does anyone in here seriously believe that the replacement will be considerably subpar?

So maybe we just all calm down a little and let them take their time with Rookburgh because it probably costs more than the entire street you're living at.
 

Pokemaniac

Mountain monkey
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(given all the track and components have already been manufactured a while ago, the trains are almost certainly done as well. And sure we all have already seen the one train that was used on the test set up.)
Actually, it makes sense not to manufacture all the trains just yet. If they were finished already, they would have to be stored somewhere until they could be shipped to the park and begin testing, which could easily be on the other side of Christmas (no point for the park to receive the trains before winter sets in, as they wouldn't be outside during the winter anyway). Each train would need a sizable space to store it in, never mind all four, and I don't think Vekoma's workshop have the room to keep them in a corner for nine months either. Sure, the park would have room eventually (they need somewhere to store them when the coaster isn't operating anyway), but it seems unlikely that their storage shed is ready to receive them already. Given how late in the construction process parks usually receive trains for new coasters, I don't think they want them on site until they are required for testing.

So yeah, maybe they have outfitted the test train into a fully operational one, since it's already made and all that, but overall it doesn't make sense for them to make the trains earlier than they have to.
 

CSLKennyNI

Active Member
The theming structure started in August 2017 from the quoted post below is now being completed.
Update from Tobi on PhantaFriends.de.
Two identical towers have been erected alongside the inversion. The two towers are connected by a large metal arch.
They're difficult to photograph (legally) but PhantaFriends member Phlpictures got a photo the towers being erected.

The structures very closely resemble this structure from the Flying Coaster poster/concept art.

Good to see the first bits of major theming are now going up.
Two more of these towers have been erected on the new surface/roof of the launch + brake run tunnels. Thus completing the set of four connected by arches shown on the F.L.Y. teaser art (as seen in the quoted post).
The top decorative parts/spires/points(?) have been delivered and fitted now.
 
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Tobi posted another update on Phantafriends: "Very much concrete was poured in the last few days. Most of the delivered concrete was used for the ceiling above the transfer track. Also, more walls have been poured. A new rail including support is installed across the launch and the brake."

Some other people did some research about the picture above in CSLKennyNI's last post. They think Phantasialand was inspired by "Schiffshebewerk Henrichenburg" which is a boat lift.
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