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B&M needs some competition on Wing Coaster market

mattorres

Roller Poster
Hi guys, I was just thinking how B&M dominates the coaster market in different styles. When you think about models like hyper, giga, inverted, wing and flying coaster you probably think first about B&M. The interesting point is that B&M has competition to all her coaster models except for the wing coaster. And this looks to be a promissing model. So, which manufacturer could give B&M this "fight"?

Vekoma already offers their inverted and flying model (which actually are pretty good now and can face head-to-head the B&M's), so I think they could add the wing coaster as well. They could try a new approach, such as Intamin did with the single rail coaster.

I personally think the wing coaster model is pretty cool, and I would like to see news perspectives over it outside B&M.
 

Dar

Hyper Poster
I also really like the wing coaster style! I think wing coasters are tougher to compete with B&M on than the regular sit-down styles. The layouts and shaping can be harder than when everybody is sat fairly close to the middle, and the trains need to be carefully designed to counteract the flexing you get with an 8ft pole that weighs half a ton hanging in mid-air! Baco seems to suffer greatly from this, and even B&Ms can have a little 'bounce' in the back rows.

I wonder if that's why other companies seem to be focusing on half-wing coasters, like Skyrush and Lost Gravity? You can have people sat closer to the middle to make shaping easier, you don't need to have so much steel hanging in the air, and the trains/cars can make tighter transitions as a result.

I can see Intamin having another go (skyrush, not baco), maybe Vekoma now they're branching out into good coasters. I have heard that Mack aren't having much luck with the Big Dipper design, so they might not bother or they might try bigger and better. Of course S&S factor into it with the Axis, and maybe they've got another 4D contract hidden up their sleeves? In fantasyland, Premier might have a stab at a half-wing, especially as a modification to the Sky Rockets.

I wonder what the limit on smallness is on wing coasters, could you have a small family coaster but with wing trains? Or does it need to be that big to be feasible?
 

mattorres

Roller Poster
Golden Horse actually have their own model which i believe will show up at Taiyuan Zoo sometime soon. Its got some similarities with the B&M mode but uses GHs double spined track rather than the box track of a B&M.

View attachment 10509
Interesting, I didn't know about that. That's cool, but golden horse isn't big here in ocidental side of the world, so...
 

mattorres

Roller Poster
I also really like the wing coaster style! I think wing coasters are tougher to compete with B&M on than the regular sit-down styles. The layouts and shaping can be harder than when everybody is sat fairly close to the middle, and the trains need to be carefully designed to counteract the flexing you get with an 8ft pole that weighs half a ton hanging in mid-air! Baco seems to suffer greatly from this, and even B&Ms can have a little 'bounce' in the back rows.

I wonder if that's why other companies seem to be focusing on half-wing coasters, like Skyrush and Lost Gravity? You can have people sat closer to the middle to make shaping easier, you don't need to have so much steel hanging in the air, and the trains/cars can make tighter transitions as a result.

I can see Intamin having another go (skyrush, not baco), maybe Vekoma now they're branching out into good coasters. I have heard that Mack aren't having much luck with the Big Dipper design, so they might not bother or they might try bigger and better. Of course S&S factor into it with the Axis, and maybe they've got another 4D contract hidden up their sleeves? In fantasyland, Premier might have a stab at a half-wing, especially as a modification to the Sky Rockets.

I wonder what the limit on smallness is on wing coasters, could you have a small family coaster but with wing trains? Or does it need to be that big to be feasible?
Tbh I don't consider coasters like Skyrush or Lost Gravity as Wing Coaster. Okay, they try to have this aspect. But I mean, if you look from outside it just seems as a normal sit down Coaster and it doesn't have that big and graceful aspect which a B&M Wing Coaster provide.

And I totally forgot about S&S, I think they're probably the closest to the Wing Coaster technology. They definitely should try it.
 

Hyde

Matt SR
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
I mean, let's not forget about Furius Baco... or wait, should we? ;)

In a zoomed out view, the roller coaster market gets pretty saturated, pretty quickly. There are only so many parks in the world that can dish out millions of dollars to build large-scale roller coasters; even then larger chains opt to do installations at a few of their parks. And B&M has already made quite the mark with their wing coaster - quick RCDB pull shows 18 wing coasters built, which already exceeds the total number of Floorless (13), Stand-Up (7), Flying (11), and Dive Machines (15) built. Only Hypers (18) and Inverts (32) beat out Wing Coasters for number of coaster built - would have thought Dive Machines were ahead of Wing Coasters!

For a coaster company to jump in, they would need to be certain there is: 1. definite market demand. 2. Ability to recoup cost from research/development required to develop a new roller coaster concept.

B&M Wing Coasters are undoubtedly the best in the business of their type. S&S would be in closest striking distance by modifying their 4D FreeSpin design, or (though I don't think we're in this alternate timeline) bring back the true 4D roller coaster in all it's glory.

But for others, like Intamin, Gerstlauer, and Vekoma - they definite seem vested in developing other coaster types. As the old addage goes; "if you can't beat them..."
 

mattorres

Roller Poster
I mean, let's not forget about Furius Baco... or wait, should we? ;)

In a zoomed out view, the roller coaster market gets pretty saturated, pretty quickly. There are only so many parks in the world that can dish out millions of dollars to build large-scale roller coasters; even then larger chains opt to do installations at a few of their parks. And B&M has already made quite the mark with their wing coaster - quick RCDB pull shows 18 wing coasters built, which already exceeds the total number of Floorless (13), Stand-Up (7), Flying (11), and Dive Machines (15) built. Only Hypers (18) and Inverts (32) beat out Wing Coasters for number of coaster built - would have thought Dive Machines were ahead of Wing Coasters!

For a coaster company to jump in, they would need to be certain there is: 1. definite market demand. 2. Ability to recoup cost from research/development required to develop a new roller coaster concept.

B&M Wing Coasters are undoubtedly the best in the business of their type. S&S would be in closest striking distance by modifying their 4D FreeSpin design, or (though I don't think we're in this alternate timeline) bring back the true 4D roller coaster in all it's glory.

But for others, like Intamin, Gerstlauer, and Vekoma - they definite seem vested in developing other coaster types. As the old addage goes; "if you can't beat them..."
I agree with you. But B&M Coasters are pretty expensive, and B&M has a huge demand. So, maybe the parks want it (the wing coaster), but it just doesn't exist the right offer...

I could be totally wrong, but I think the wing coaster is the one with the most potential to be our next 'Inverted Coaster'. B&M "introduced" it to the world, others manufacturers created their own design, and the inverted coaster is popular until nowdays. It's that same perspective of the parks that could not buy a B&M invert, got a Vekoma SLC. We need a more "acessible" wing coaster (but hopefuly they wont be as bad as vekoma's SLC). Just like the dive coaster aspect, since a Gerstlauer can be much more cheaper than a B&M.

B&M only cares about "elite" parks. And that's why they need some competition in this aspect.
 

airtime_uk_ash

Mega Poster
It doesn't really solve the affordability issue but i would love for someone to bring a truly winged train design to a hypercoaster, yes the space required would be Huge but i think the height would really lend itself well to the large swooping transition of a wing model.
 

Hyde

Matt SR
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
It doesn't really solve the affordability issue but i would love for someone to bring a truly winged train design to a hypercoaster, yes the space required would be Huge but i think the height would really lend itself well to the large swooping transition of a wing model.
There was a time when we thought Dive Machines couldn’t be 200 ft. ?
 

Luca B

Mega Poster
It doesn't really solve the affordability issue but i would love for someone to bring a truly winged train design to a hypercoaster, yes the space required would be Huge but i think the height would really lend itself well to the large swooping transition of a wing model.
Well Falcon exists
 
Interesting, I didn't know about that. That's cool, but golden horse isn't big here in ocidental side of the world, so...

Ye....... that's probably for the best.

I've had the (mis)fortune of providing an engineering review of some of their designs and I established that safety standards do exist in China, but noone seems to know what they are.

B&M only cares about "elite" parks. And that's why they need some competition in this aspect.

I don't think that's fair on B&M as they can only sell a ride if a park wants it and it isn't B&Ms fault if other manufacturers are unable to offer a better value alternative.
Although I do agree that competition will only benefit the consumer and it will be nice to see alternatives show up.

I think it has more to do with manufacturers playing it safe with their money and making smaller changes to already existing systems instead of going all out with a completely new design.
That said, I don't think Vekoma will tell you to get lost if you offered to throw money at them to come up with something new.....
 
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