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9/11 EDL & Muslim Extremists

spicy

Giga Poster
Opening a can of worms here but here we go..

Today I saw on the news something that completely disgusted me was that a group of muslims calling themselves 'Muslims Against the Crusades' were burning the US flag and the Union Jack outside the US embassy in London on the 10th aniversary of 9/11.

http://www.demotix.com/news/437093/musl ... on-embassy

What I am told, is that members of the EDL eventually managed to get to them and gave them a bloody good hiding, which I found myself being very pleased about.

Personally I am completely disgusted that these 'Muslims Against the Crusades' individuals are actually UK citizens and share these views.

The point of this topic is, are you pleased that the 'EDL' gave them a good hiding? and what are your views on this matter?
 

Smithy

Strata Poster
EDL are bigoted racists, worse than the BNP by a country mile.

That said, I fully and whole heartedly support them kicking ten shades of **** out of those extremists scumbags who would swiftly stop their attention seeking "ISLAM WILL DOMINATE THE WORLD" protests if they weren't bizarrely given police protection. Freedom of speech should have a restraint, entirely hypocritical but most of the written law is today.
 

Hixee

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Smithy said:
EDL are bigoted racists, worse than the BNP by a country mile.

That said, I fully and whole heartedly support them kicking ten shades of **** out of those extremists scumbags who would swiftly stop their attention seeking "ISLAM WILL DOMINATE THE WORLD" protests if they weren't bizarrely given police protection. Freedom of speech should have a restraint, entirely hypocritical but most of the written law is today.
Well said.

I was SO dissapointed/outraged/pissed off when I saw the clips of that on the news last night. To think they live in this country. I hated it.

So yeah, the EDL can **** off, they're vile human beings, but they did the right thing yesterday. Maybe not morally or politically or legally correct, but for me it was the right thing to do.
 

furie

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I don't really know how to stand on this one :lol:

I feel it's a bit like introducing wasps into your garden to get rid of a killer ant infestation. Yes, you get rid of one, but you're still left with a poisonous menace on your property. So therefore I don't, and can't, really support it.

However, I do think that anyone that feels the need to yell in public to justify their stupidity and completely **** beliefs should be taken out and shot (or something, I don't know :lol: ).

I completely disagree with the idea that people should be able to spout complete and utter bollocks in public under the rights of "freedom of speech". I think before they should be allowed, they should have to provide 3 pieces of empirical evidence to prove what they're saying; otherwise they can just keep their idiotic, petty minded, hateful, deceitful and dangerous rhetoric to themselves. The whole bloody lot of them!

(Sorry, on a rant because I was accosted by a bible basher in the town centre over the weekend telling me and my kids how we're going to hell and how science is the path to evil - **** off. Seriously, just **** off. )
 

kimahri

CF Legend
Someone belittle the great god furie? HERETIC! HERETIC I SAY! PLACE THEIR HEAD IN THE BEE BASKET!


The only thing I can really say is both of then need to **** off. They're annoying.
 

spicy

Giga Poster
furie said:
I feel it's a bit like introducing wasps into your garden to get rid of a killer ant infestation. Yes, you get rid of one, but you're still left with a poisonous menace on your property. So therefore I don't, and can't, really support it.

Haha, thats actually quite a good way of putting it. Although the EDL might be racist thugs, they don't condone terrorism, so I think I would rather have one poisonous menace than two with one being a potential danger to the citizens of the country.

furie said:
However, I do think that anyone that feels the need to yell in public to justify their stupidity and completely **** beliefs should be taken out and shot (or something, I don't know :lol: ).

I completely disagree with the idea that people should be able to spout complete and utter bollocks in public under the rights of "freedom of speech". I think before they should be allowed, they should have to provide 3 pieces of empirical evidence to prove what they're saying; otherwise they can just keep their idiotic, petty minded, hateful, deceitful and dangerous rhetoric to themselves. The whole bloody lot of them!

Thats the thing, how can they not be arrested for burning the Union Jack and the US flag? That isn't "freedom of speech" thats basically condoning the terrorist attacks that took place on 9/11 and any others that have taken place since.

In fact that basically means that any of them could be potential terrorists themselves, if they condone such acts, why wouldn't they perform one themselves?

The freedom of speech act needs to be altered if you are allowed to perform such acts under it.
 

jokerman

Giga Poster
It's always annoyed me that this country has no real laws concerning flags. I wouldn't want it to go as far as the US where the flag is literally everywhere, and people seem to bow down before it wherever they go, but I would like to see an end put to people defacing it.
 

furie

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spicy said:
Haha, thats actually quite a good way of putting it. Although the EDL might be racist thugs, they don't condone terrorism, so I think I would rather have one poisonous menace than two with one being a potential danger to the citizens of the country.

If given enough time/support/power/incitement then they would essentially turn to terrorism. I don't think for a minute that anyone that angry against another "race" would stop for a second and think "there are children in that Mosque we just fire-bombed". Violence begats violence, they missed that out of Genesis...

spicy said:
Thats the thing, how can they not be arrested for burning the Union Jack and the US flag? That isn't "freedom of speech" thats basically condoning the terrorist attacks that took place on 9/11 and any others that have taken place since.

For me, it's deliberately inciting violence - which I agree should be an arrestable act (I thought it was?). It wasn't done as a protest, it was done as an act to provoke a violent reaction (in my opinion) and it shouldn't be allowed. How do you police what is reasonable protest and what is incite though?
 

Dave

CF Legend
Also surely they were 'disturbing the peace' as well? If I went into a high street and burnt a flag then I'm sure a policeman will arrest me or write a ticket. Strange how in a 'organised protest' they can get away with it.

I think they do have a point with the crusades, but it's a little late being over 700 years ago, but there is something weird about a group of knights riding over to Juresalem and killing people 'in the name of god'.
But what annoys me most is that they live in this country, oppress everything about it, but still don't mind living here 'enduring' it, if you were so disgusted by it, just leave.
 

furie

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Am I missing the point or is everyone else? :lol:

I thought they were protesting against what they think of as a modern crusade against Islam by the US and UK armed forces in Afghanistan and Iraq? They're using the medieval term to describe the current conflict. Or that's how I interpreted it anyway.

Anyway, I think if you have an "organised" demonstration it's not disturbing the peace, as it's organised and the peace is disturbed prior to the event by the organisers/police :p
 

Dave

CF Legend
Ah I never thought of it as a modern crusades before, but I don't think a lot of it is to do with religion these days, however much they want to believe...
 

Treeis

Mega Poster
I say, if they are burning a flag of a country, they shouldn't be allowed in it. Fair and square
 

furie

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Treeis said:
I say, if they are burning a flag of a country, they shouldn't be allowed in it. Fair and square

Just devil's advocate here for a second, but is that worse than burning down local businesses - as happened just a couple of week's back..? Should we also be deporting everyone who rioted for fun (at least these idiots can hide behind 'a cause')? [/justforfun]
 

tomahawk

Strata Poster
^Yes. Send them to Northern Canada, they will go Jihad on the moose, and then the Canadians will attack with maple syrup. (Just pictured that in my head, completely stupid and amazing)

If they would have tried that in middle America, where, well, you have more guns than people, the second they took out the gas can, it would've fallen to the ground. I know a lot of people with good shots. If you are unhappy where you are, get THE **** out, and let someone who wants to live there live there. (This is probably going to sound extremely horrible but **** it, I don't care) Go back to the desert and protest there, at least there are like minded people there and Team America will come for you some day.
 

FaceYourNemesis

Hyper Poster
The EDL are just as bad as the scum that burn flags in the first place. In no way do these clowns represent our country, and neither do the fundamentalist nasties represent Islam.
 

furie

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tomahawKSU said:
If they would have tried that in middle America, where, well, you have more guns than people, the second they took out the gas can, it would've fallen to the ground. I know a lot of people with good shots. If you are unhappy where you are, get THE **** out, and let someone who wants to live there live there. (This is probably going to sound extremely horrible but **** it, I don't care) Go back to the desert and protest there, at least there are like minded people there and Team America will come for you some day.

I think this is genuinely a difficult one. These people think of themselves as "missionaries". They are trying to show the "Christian world" that Islam is a live religion and they want to convert people to their way (I assume they do, or they want people to leave them alone to their Islamic ways in their Islamic countries - there's a topic for another day).

Fortunately for them, the "Christian world" is accommodating to everyone, so they allowed to live here and live under the protection of our laws. They have no reason not to use that to their advantage, why should an extremist not use everything they have to their advantage? Let's face it, to make people believe in your idiocy, you need every opportunity you can get.

The thing is, the reason people are allowed to do what they want and be kept safe by the law is because we're (as countries) open minded and "mature". All people have rights. This is actually a really good thing. The same thing that allows for idiots to spout violent rhetoric also allows us to speak out in the news or streets against our governments. It facilitates democracy. At the very least, it's allowed the growth of atheism (particularly in the UK) from a very strict religious structure. If you have to put up with raving idiots (who are a loud minority) for those benefits, then fine.

In the US, there was that group of fundamentalists who protested that soldiers funeral, I can't remember the details. They were allowed to be offensive too even in the US. Of course, if it had been fundamentalist Muslims doing it, there would probably have been bloodshed... Not sure what that point is, but it seemed relevant at some point to me :lol:

Even worse, if you went to an Islamic country and tried to speak out against Islam, then you'd probably find yourself strung up very rapidly. It seems completely unfair, but you have to look at it in a bigger picture, one of a grown up world against a childish, teen sulky world.

We're (trying to be) a mature culture which is accepting of everyone, no matter what their difference in terms of colour, creed, sexuality, whatever. That means everyone has their own soapbox, but it doesn't mean that everyone has to take any notice of these people on their soapboxes. Most people don't either.

It's frustrating to see people who clearly despise our culture raving against it while living under the benefits and protection of that country. However, we have to be the bigger people and just let them rant and rave while we just enjoy the benefits and protection ourselves.

Just be thankful you wake up every day and you have the right to believe in a god, or not. Every few years you have the opportunity to try and change the way the country is run f you're not happy with it. You can walk the streets without fear of breaking an arcane law that has no relevance in a modern society. That everyone is treated as equals, whether they deserve it or not.

In other words, be the grown up and simply laugh at the babies chucking their dummies out of the prams. ;)
 

Mark

Strata Poster
furie said:
In other words, be the grown up and simply laugh at the babies chucking their dummies out of the prams. ;)

Which is exactly what I did. I laughed at the irony of the group of people protesting saying that they did not want western 'freedoms' etc. The fact that the ability to protest is actually one of those 'freedoms' they do not want was most amusing.

As for the issue with the EDL. Sorry, i've said regarding other topics, but it violence is not the way to solve problems and only causes bigger issues. I appreciate their motives for doing so. I agree, protesting and burning flags at that time was just blatantly insensitive and also likely to cause as big an issue as violence would. It certainly will not get you what you want nor garner you any further supporters. To me it is about picking the right time and place to protest and maintain a certain level of your own dignity when you do so. If you can not, for whatever reason, find any 'respect' for another nation mourning loss (especially when you are living there and getting a much better life for it) I think you really need to take a step back and look at the kind of person you are. I appreciate protests are most effective when controversial and noticeable but when a nation is in a state of mourning or memorial that is a step to far.

However, the EDL beating them up is not going to achieve anything other than strengthen their hatred of Western Civilisation.
 

Smithy

Strata Poster
It would achieve something though. It would stop them from protesting. Remove the protection they get (that funnily enough the EDL themselves were lacking when a group of Asian youths attacked them recently) and they'll soon stop it.
 
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