4th Dimensional Coasters

[reddude333]

How come we don't see many of these popping up. I think most people who have ridden X or X2 will place it in their Top 10 and it is clearly an iconic coaster. Albeit S&S did make a new one this year, why do we not see other manufactures picking up this general coaster type? Mind you I am referring to the larger model of a 4th dimensional coaster (so not ZacSpins because they are clearly much different).

Is it a cost issue? Or a lack of flexibility from manufacturers? Or is there just no demand for them, like X was sort of a one-hit wonder. I also don't know much about the maintenance required for them. I realize that S&S (who owns the late Arrow) doesn't put out a lot of coasters and many of their coasters have technical issues, but that doesn't seem like an excuse for other manufacturers to not design a similar model.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TilenB]

They are expensive as hell, although they are good, there are better rides that can be built for lower costs

 

[Hyde]

Cost and Reliability.

X is famous for putting Arrow Dynamics, THE roller coaster manufacturer, out of business because it was a logistical nightmare that burned time and money. Though S&S seemed to work the kinks out with X2, Eejanaika, and Dinoconda - these coasters are still top dollar. X cost $46,000,000 and Eejanaika $31,000,000. Compare that to the $25,000,000 price tag of Top Thrill Dragster.

They are indeed one of the best roller coaster experiences on Earth, but parks will more often than not opt with cheaper, more reliable designs that still offer quality thrill.

 

[reddude333]

I mean, wing coasters are very popular right now and they can easily cost upwards of $30 million. I understand the reliability issue but I think (initial) cost should hardly be an issue for the larger parks. It's just unfortunate that Arrow couldn't capitalize on X and create the new coaster craze, which would have been possible (using wing coasters as a current example) barring major technical flaws. Perhaps there is still a slim chance of a comeback...

 

[bmac]

With a price tag of $46 million it's no wonder why Arrow couldn't "capitalize" on it. Face it, Arrow basically dug their own grave and buried themselves in it during the 90s - early 00s.

S&S isn't exactly the most famous coaster manufacturer either, what with the issues from Hypersonic along with a dabble into wooden coasters that didn't really turn into anything. Oh and you can't forget the international success that is Ring Racer, either.

 

[BBH]

I think S&S is going to be reluctant with 4D coasters since X is the reason Arrow went out of business, the calamity it was. Even though they've clearly righted the wrongs of X with X2, they have to play their cards right since they're not exactly the most prominent company in the industry.

 

[Nic]

I think the only way I can see these catching on in a big way is if one of the other bigger manufacturers were to start making a version. It would have to be reliable though or parks just wouldn't want the hassle. If, for arguments sake, b&m were to develop a 4d version of their wing rider, and could prove it's reliability, I suspect a few parks would go for it. That's the only real scenario where I could see them catching on in anything even approaching a big way. As others have said, the problems with X are legendary, so what park in their right mind is going to want one if them? The only parks that do are Asian ones with money to burn.

 

[BBH]

The design is actually incredibly complex and specific because the microscopic changes in the control rails are what pivot the seats, and a slight change can make the entire ride go awry, which is why only the ridiculously rich parks can afford to take the gamble.

 

[Hixee]

The design is actually incredibly complex and specific because the microscopic changes in the control rails are what pivot the seats, and a slight change can make the entire ride go awry, which is why only the ridiculously rich parks can afford to take the gamble.

Microscopic might be pushing it a bit.

 

[BBH]

The design is actually incredibly complex and specific because the microscopic changes in the control rails are what pivot the seats, and a slight change can make the entire ride go awry, which is why only the ridiculously rich parks can afford to take the gamble.

Microscopic might be pushing it a bit.

Maybe not microscopic, but pretty darn small.

 

[Hixee]

The design is actually incredibly complex and specific because the microscopic changes in the control rails are what pivot the seats, and a slight change can make the entire ride go awry, which is why only the ridiculously rich parks can afford to take the gamble.

Microscopic might be pushing it a bit.

Maybe not microscopic, but pretty darn small.

I think the control rails move +/-6 inches relative to 'zero' (ie, the middle). I'm getting that figure from my backside I might add, but from seeing some old TV show about X where they had a camera fixed looking at the control rails and the rack-and-pinion system I think that's probably a good enough estimate. It's not that hard to manufacture something to that sort of accuracy.

I think the issue is, everything is more expensive. The track, the supports, the trains, the maintenance, etc. It all adds up, I don't think it can be directly linked to one factor.

 

[madhjsp]

The design is actually incredibly complex and specific because the microscopic changes in the control rails are what pivot the seats, and a slight change can make the entire ride go awry, which is why only the ridiculously rich parks can afford to take the gamble.

That's not it. Every coaster is designed and manufactured with minute precision, not just the 4D's. The control rails aren't the reason they're expensive.

For one thing, they're much more expensive to maintain than standard coasters, so there's that cost. Then the trains also drive up the cost in several ways. For starters, they are some of the most expensive ones the coaster world has ever seen, but they are also some of the heaviest. This requires very bulky track and supports , especially given the stresses of the raven turn elements. Expensive trains + extra steel reinforcement = high price tag. See: Steel Dragon 2000.

 

[furie]

There's one opened this year, I'd hardly say that the coaster type was dead yet

 

[BBH]

That's what I mean, there are obviously a lot of factors, I was just pointing out one of them.

 

[Hyde]

You can split hairs over the design of S&S 4-D coasters, but the fact of the matter is that they cost $31,000,000+. That makes it one of the most expensive roller coasters in the world - more than larger, faster roller coasters from Intamin, B&M, etc.

Leviathan - $28 million
Millennium Force - $25 million
Top Thrill Dragster - $25 million
Maverick - $21 million
Intimidator 305 - $25 million
Ravine Flyer II - $6 million
The Voyage - $6.5 million
Balder - $12.6 million
Outlaw Run - $10 million
Superman RoS - $12 million
GateKeeper - $30 million
The Swarm - $31.8 million
Nemesis - $15.9 million
Riddler's Revenge - $14 million
Alpengeist - $20 million
Griffon - $15.6 million

... I think you get the point.

The only roller coaster I can find that costs more than an S&S 4D is Expedition Everest at $100 million.

 

[IntaminToWin]

^Steel Dragon 2000 is more too. Due to the fact that it needed a lot of earthquake proofing and has that incredible track length.

 

[Hyde]

Yes, that is correct. Steel Dragon 2000 cost $52 million.

 

[madhjsp]

Verbolten also reportedly cost more, at $50 million. But yeah, your point that there are only a handful of more expensive coasters out there is the truth.

 

[bmac]

Verbolten also reportedly cost more, at $50 million. But yeah, your point that there are only a handful of more expensive coasters out there is the truth.

Verbolten was estimated to be $54 million in total budget, although some fansites claim it came in over budget. I have no clue how much it was just for the track and train, like what the recent 4D coasters look as. Iirc, Expedition Everest is also total budget, too, which is somewhere at $100 million.

 

[gavin]

^Yeah, it's only really fair to look at the actual track and train costs. If a park wants to go ahead and double the cost with extensive theming, it's really not the same thing as saying the coaster cost that much if that makes sense.

The 4D coasters built so far aren't themed (a bit of fire on X2 would cost relatively little and doesn't count), so the price you're looking it is pretty much 100% track/train cost. VERY few parks could afford to spend that money, and those that could afford it are either

a. unlikely to spend so much when they can get something "bigger" and more proven for less, or
b. the kind of park that doesn't want a huge piece of unthemed metal stuck on a slab of concrete.