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The moon landings

Did man walk on the moon?

  • Of course.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't have a brain, therefore, I'm saying "no".

    Votes: 1 100.0%

  • Total voters
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furie

SBOPD
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To back track a little and look for proof...

First up, there are several people who walked on the surface of the moon. Ask them, they'll tell you they did it. It would stand up in a court of law.

Ask the hundreds of thousands of people who made it possible. The hundreds of thousands of scientists who have advanced their theories and works based on the results of the visits. Doctors studying the returning astronauts who can see what the effects of a moon landing have on the human body.

There is so much evidence it happened, but not enough to convince somebody firmly believes "it was all just made up". It's hundreds of thousands of small proofs that could not exist if it didn't happen. No evidence yet has proven it didn't happen, every piece has been shown to be wrong, or demonstrated by self-confessed "experts" who are in a vocal minority.

Of course, this photo taken by the lunar orbiter also wont convince anyome:
467389main_apollo16-20100708-570.jpg

NASA said:
High-sun image of the Apollo 16 landing site showing the lunar module descent stage, various pieces of equipment, and disturbed lunar soil (seen as darker lines and areas) which marks where John Young and Charles Duke traversed in the spring of 1972. The labels on the image are for the Lunar Module (LM), the Lunar Roving Vehicle (LRV), the Apollo Lunar Surface Experiments Package (ALSEP), the Radioisotopic Thermoelectric Generator (RTG) that powered the ALSEP, and a line of geophones (devices that take seismic readings) that extended west by northwest from the ALSEP station. LROC image M109134835L, 296 meters across (about 971 feet). Credit: NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center/Arizona State University

The problem is, a lot of the "theories" occurred before NASA proclaimed they were returning to the moon. The lunar orbiter is doing detailed studies to work out the best place to land and make a permanent base. It's also taken shots of the original landing site (above).

Of course, that could well be photoshopped, but as with all these things, you then have to look at Occam's razor. Does the theory you posit cause more questions to be asked than it answers? Is it harder to support the alternative theory, than it is to support the "truth"?

In this case? Absolutely...

40 years ago, a lot of people were involved in the moon landings. Let's say it was faked... Over the last 40 years, this has continued to be covered up by every new employee that joins NASA.

"Hi, I've come to start work on the HD camera module for the new Lunar Orbiter. I've calculated the exposures and timings required to take shots of the lunar landing site. When do we go?"

"Sorry young Fred, but let me take you in here where we can be alone... See, we are paying $200,000 a year to do this, but you've just got to pretend... The landings never happened you see... You can't complete your task and we've got a 14 year old on Photoshop right now knocking it up instead. However, for 40 years we've paid people millions upon millions to sit at NASA doing nothing because nobody wants to admit it was faked... Even the opposing parties won't go against it, despite the fact it could rock their opponents to the core. Nope, sorry Fred, but your job here is just to keep quiet. We can trust you can't we Fred? After all, in the last 40 years, hundreds of thousads of others like you have kept their word... So shush eh? You know it's for the best".

"Of course sir, why would anybody want to out the biggest secret in modern history? It's completely beyond me!"

When NASA return to the moon, and they visit the original sites, it STILL wont be good enough evidence. NASA will STILL be setting up a fake landing site for the tourists to visit because it wasn't real. People taking photos that match the originals in terms of shadow and angles will ALL be faking them. All of a sudden, everyone who visits the moon will be part of this conspiracy, over 50 years old. Nobody originally involved will be alive any more, nobody will care if it was faked or not, but the faked landings will perpetuate another thousand years of lies and deceit... Or not, because to even keep it covered up for 40 years through a multitude of different government offices, programmes, scientists, agencies, cleaners, etc, etc, etc is absolutely impossible.

The fact there is no actual "empirical" proof it didn't happen, is all the proof you need that it did.
 

Karen

Hyper Poster
I haven't said whether I believe they have walked on the moon, I am a fence sitter.

I just respect Phil's views on this matter and those that believe it happened. I am NOT looking for a conspiracy.

Just because Phil's my partner does mean we have the same opinions!
 

Martyn

Giga Poster
Philthy said:
Firstly Uc might want to take note of this for future postings. As my partner Karen points out Wikapedia is not a credible site for reference . The public post the content so all your links there are just opinions not fact.

While that's technically correct, it's really only true for "sub" facts within an article. If an article has the word "mockumentary" in its title, I think it's safe to say that you'd be reading about a mockumentary.

Also, have you ever tried to insert some fake facts into a Wiki article? If you're at all successful, it really won't last long.

Philthy said:
Secondly the IMDb link you posted is also just peoples opinions. I found this opinion which I quite agreed with - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344160/board/nest/80794446 on your IMDb site.

Yes, but, UC was referring to the movie's main IMDB page, which lists the film as "comedy". That's not some reviewer's opinion, that's what will have come from the production team or the director or whatever.

Are you saying that you still think the film is real and not a mockumentary?

Philthy said:
A third point I want to make is that I have not been shown any credible evidence to show that the moon landings did happen? Where is your proof? You have only given me hearsay & peoples opinions.

And so have you. And unfortunately, that's what it comes down to, people's opinions. Some people just won't be convinced either way.

Unfortunately, you're in the minority, and you have to be the one to provide the proof that it DIDN'T happen, and all you've provided so far has been quite easily explained and disproved.

Here's some fairly concrete proof for you. The reflectors that were left on the moon: every day a man fires a massive laser at the moon and bounces it off the "mirror" that was put there during one of the missions (in fact, I think there's more than one gone up there), he does that to measure the distance between the laser and the moon and they've discovered that the moon is very slowly moving away from the Earth. Are you telling me the mirrors aren't there and they're making all that data up? Sure, the movements are miniscule and as far as I'm aware, they're not noticable to have changed tidal activity or anything yet, but it will be in the future.


I've only briefly looked at your Jack White link (because I'm on my lunch break at work) and I'll look at that in further detail later, but from a brief glance, it looks very much like a lot of clutching at straws, and because the original, as in, actual original images will never be in circulation (all of his original images will have been taken from the NASA online archive where they'll have gone through all kinds of compression and retouching), it really doesn't prove anything either way. And without doing the tests yourself (which I'll try when I get home, if I can find the right images), it could all just be completely made up. But like the link UC provided has mentioned, he's cleverly forgotten to put in the original source image references, and is also widely considered to be a bit of a tool and just out to make a name for himself by going on about conspiracies.
 

kimahri

CF Legend
Philthy said:
Firstly Uc might want to take note of this for future postings. As my partner Karen points out Wikapedia is not a credible site for reference . The public post the content so all your links there are just opinions not fact.

Going in semi blind but some pages from wikipedia are locked from public editing, I.E the ones that recive high traffic which I assume the moon landings will get, and will only be edited by select few people and only if they recive multiple sources. Even then Wiki pages can be slightly more reliable if you check the sources where they get the info from.

Then again, I don't actually know if the pages mentioned in this document are locked or not.
 

CMonster

Giga Poster
I really like topics such as this where I actually learn stuff. :)

Oh, and, of course I believe in the moon landings.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Martyn said:
Here's some fairly concrete proof for you. The reflectors that were left on the moon: every day a man fires a massive laser at the moon and bounces it off the "mirror" that was put there during one of the missions (in fact, I think there's more than one gone up there), ...
And those couldn't have been placed there remotely by a lander/rover??

Anyway I don't really care for these conspiracies about the moon landings (heck there are even people that claim that the 1958 World Cup didn't happen in Sweden...), have a look on the Mythbusters special about the "lunar Hoax" and see they bust several of the "proofs" that the conspirators have says that the Lunar landings didn't happen...
 

Philthy

Roller Poster
I have been working my way through the links & information & I am very impressed with what UC has posted about "Dark Side Of The Moon" . I am big enought to admit that I didnt reasearch it properly & I can now see after UCs work that the film muddys the water by containing truths & non truths & dis crediting them all. I am posting my views on here to defend my belief that man has not walked on the moon & show you why I believe this. Im not here to convert anyone or tell them what to think. Everyone has there own opinions as do I. I find the Jack White photos very interesting & although his reputation is under attack on here the photos need explaining.
Here is another film that raises alot of questions that need answering. I have found the link on youtube which has been re posted by some random person.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKONhVl7Sr8[/youtube]

Also here is an interview with the producer of this film. It also raises alot of things which dont seem right about the moon landings.

http://nwopodcast.com/fetz/media/jim%20 ... fakery.mp3

I also have alot of links to post on this subject which im still researching which should answer the other points raised so far. I will post them later.
I will gladly discuss 9/11 , JFK & 7/7 with you UC after we have been to the moon & back (or not ) over this subject :lol:
 

Karen

Hyper Poster
At least Phil is trying to find information on why he believes they are faked.

Where's your proof that they are not? :p
 

furie

SBOPD
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Karen said:
Where's your proof that they are not? :p

We don't need it, because everything says "it happened".

You could say "UC didn't visit Alton on Saturday" and then prove it by showing this photo was faked (by getting an 'expert' to tear apart the poor photoshopping) :

Let's face it, it's pretty unconvincing.

So the entire trip was a hoax, and you have 'evidence' it never happened.

Other than saying "well, actually it DID happen" - there's no proof you can't "shoot down" by a self-confessed 'expert'.

Where are his plane tickets? He threw them away. Park ticket? He didn't get one as we got him in for free. FREE? You can't do that, more evidence it never happened.

Etc, etc, etc.

The problem is, everything (including hundreds of thousands of people involved) say "it happened". The fact that you have to search for evidence to disprove it (and whenever it's found, it's then disproved by 'real experts') points to the fact that in reality, it MUST have happened.

30 years of research to prove it's a hoax, and there still isn't any conclusive evidence it never happened. Not a single person has come forward on his death bed (out of the hundreds of thousands 'silenced') and said "yeah, biggest jape of the century, all the evidence is in my pocket. I'm dying, what do I care about some dead President losing face... Who already lost as much face as was possible anyway".

The evidence is:

1. The rocket took off.
2. The rocket separated into a lunar module which then landed on the moon.
3. The astronauts walked on the moon, then came home with samples.

We have as proof of this, video footage, photographs, sample collections, modern photographs showing the landing site, logs of the mission, 400,000 people involved in it all and finally, the testimony of over a dozen professional astronauts who actually took part in the missions.

Anyone can say "yeah, but all that is fake". Yet, it's still evidence until it's proven to be fake. So far, nobody has managed to do that conclusively - hence, the chances are, the evidence is all real.
 

Philthy

Roller Poster
So instead of talking about if man did walk on the moon or not this post has turned into talking about my reseach abilitys & personality?
 

furie

SBOPD
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Philthy said:
So instead of talking about if man did walk on the moon or not this post has turned into talking about my reseach abilitys & personality?

You're calling several presidents, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and a lot of other people complete and utter liars of the highest order.

I think fair's fair ;)

Seriously though Phil. When you look at this kind of thing, you have to question why people are for or against.

You say that it's conspiracy, so you ARE calling into doubt the testimony of all the astronauts who went up. All the crews involved. All the presidents aware of the fake landings and everyone else.

You are saying - these people are a bunch of liars, pulling the wool over everyone's eyes for their own personal gains.

That's a pretty harsh judgement on those people. If the basis of your argument is that these people are liars and cheats, then you have to get your own side questioned in a similar way.

Why are you looking to prove these people as liars and cheats? Why do you believe that? Are the places you are getting the ideas these people are like that correct?

If the foundation of an argument is that "the opposition" is dishonest, then you have to have your own honesty questioned too.

It's no more personal than you calling Nixon a liar and cheat (okay, he was, but let's not go there ;) ).

I hope that makes sense?

I was thinking about this last night though. Did you know I know more about the theories that it was fake than I do about the actual landings themselves?

I've read a bit about the landings, but most of my actual knowledge of them comes from people debunking the fake landing theory. I know a huge amount about all of the arguments for it being fake. There are so many fantastic theories and proofs out there, and over the years I've watched a lot of "documentaries" on them, read articles, etc.

So my knowledge of the conspiracy far outweighs my knowledge of the actual event. It's actually quite worrying. The information is there, it's just often a lot of very hard science. So it's very dull to read about. You can't make pounds per square inch of thrust of a negative vector sound interesting. If you don't know anything about the science, then it's easy to misunderstand it.

It IS rocket science. If you understand rocket science, then everything works out. If rocket scientists the world over agree it works out, then I agree with them. If a photographer says the rocket science doesn't work? Well, let's just say I'm not trusting him to start the moon tourist programme in 10 years time, I'm with those rocket scientist guys.

UC is right when he says you've already decided. You have. If you came up with enough proof that could not be explained in any way, then I would easily come over to your side. I'm sure UC would as well.

That's being open minded. You are swayed by the evidence presented and when enough comes along, you change your viewpoint so suit. Call it sitting on one side of the fence, but with a huge catflap just in case :)

The evidence you have has been disproven Phil and basic questions unanswered (why for instance), so the question is: are you open minded to sit on our side until you have that proof that could convince us? We'll join you if you can amass enough evidence and answer the questions :)

Please though, don't take it too personally. I've had arguments with UC very similar to this. Everyone is different, and when something we deeply believe or hold dear is brought into question - it does feel personal. Things can get heated, but we should all be able to sit down and have a beer together in the end. Your beliefs don't reflect you as a person and it's not slur on you personally (as such) :lol: It's just a heated discussion, which should be lively, thought provoking and get the blood flowing :)
 

Karen

Hyper Poster
UC, you stated..........
Yeah, it pretty much did that two pages ago, when you posted all the BS you did as "fact," and then refused to listen to the rest of us when we debunked your theories over and over again.

Phil posted........

Philthy said:
I have been working my way through the links & information & I am very impressed with what UC has posted about "Dark Side Of The Moon" . I am big enought to admit that I didnt reasearch it properly & I can now see after UCs work that the film muddys the water by containing truths & non truths & dis crediting them all. I am posting my views on here to defend my belief that man has not walked on the moon & show you why I believe this. Im not here to convert anyone or tell them what to think. Everyone has there own opinions as do I. :


REFUSE TO LISTEN!!!!!!? He actualy praised you and admitted he was in the wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Karen

Hyper Poster
Respect your elders you cheeky little ****!

Phil is not a liar especially when it comes to admitting when he's wrong and praises someone!

He is a good guy with respect for others UNLIKE YOURSELF!
 

furie

SBOPD
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Nobody is calling Phil a liar Karen. Okay, a disrespectful brush off of an apology, but not a liar.
 

Jools

Giga Poster
Hixee said:

I don't know really, but this photo doesn't help, the Sun is hitting the earth at one angle but you can see the sun shining on the astronauts helmet from the other. :? I guess it could be light reflecting off something else though.
 
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