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SFMM | West Coast Racers | Premier Quadruple Launch Möbius Coaster

Discussion in 'Roller Coaster Construction' started by CrashCoaster, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. Youngster Joey

    Youngster Joey Well-Known Member

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    Honestly Just give me the coaster without the theme it currently has and the Mid Course Commercial Run and I'd be just fine with the addition. My problem is with the theme and not the ride itself. the ride is about the level i expected as i expect to be dissapointed by SFMM not building something mindblowing or even just a solid beemer at this point, they've just proven they don't currently posses the budget and/means to do so.
     
  2. Snoo

    Snoo Well-Known Member

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    The sarcasm.. it drips.

    Honestly, I would have preferred something along the lines of Firechaser at Dollywood as mentioned previously. The ride is relatively inexpensive, can be themed quite easily, is very unique, and fits a gap in their lineup quite nicely. As I said, I don't NEED a mega coaster every year for every park. I know it's not logical but this ride just reeks of 2000's Six Flags. They got into that mess with crap investments and as was being discussed previously, SFMM has some holes to fill and personally, this doesn't help.
     
  3. John Knotts

    John Knotts Active Member

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    Yes but they're CHEAP investments. They're making cash again, but they're holding on to it this time. You will NEVER see a large coaster investment in any of their parks ever again...unless the company is purchased by someone with deep pockets. Their attitude towards SFMM in particular is, the former regime did all the heavy lifting for them (X2, Tatsu, Superman, Goliath), now all they have to do is plug in gimmicks and flashy branding and the LA/teenage market will eat it up. And they aren't wrong.

    Six Flags is different from places like Dollywood, Holiday World or even Cedar Fair. Those companies hire real theme park people are creative minds to created experiences. Six Flags is the ultimate corporation filled with business freaks who just want the ROI...period. That video from Jim Reid-Anderson was about as cynical as you get. "Hey we've got something for everyone, and you will LOVE it, because you've got no other choice". SFMM got around this for awhile by taking rides and improving upon them which most people liked. But now they've run out of rides that they can do that cheaply with, so now they've joined the Jim-Reid Anderson show. SFMM at their worst would never have named anything Crazanity.

    I like the addition of WCR in spite of itself. But the way the chain is being run still leaves a lot to be desired.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
  4. Antinos

    Antinos Slut for Spinners Social Media Team

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    This is my sentiment regarding the ride. I think it'll be a fun coaster, but it is not a flagship. It doesn't belong in a flagship park, awkwardly crammed between two slots in their product lineup.


    Cite your sources, my guy. Where are you seeing this data that states that CP's attendance has been flat? It's already been stated, but Steel Vengeance is anything but a failure. It regularly pulls a two hour line. Plus, the park's marketing campaign to showcase the rest of the resort in addition to Steel Vengeance is paying its dividends. All parking lots are often filled, the water park busy, the beach crowded with people, and the campground/cabins showing their popularity as well. One can clearly observe that in a visit.


    This guy right here. Six Flags Magic Mountain is the chain's FLAGSHIP, but West Coast Racers is not a FLAGSHIP. Yes, Six Flags is strapped for cash.Yes, they're building cheap, small rides to keep their lineups fresh while retaining as much money as possible. But Busch and Sea World are also strapped for cash. That hasn't stopped them from building Mako (a FLAGSHIP) and investing ~150 million over the next few years. Plot twist: one doesn't achieve that exorbitant of a number without building FLAGSHIPS. According to Cedar Fair in their recent conference call, their disclosure of attempting to create a leaner business model and remove or sell off under-performing attractions suggests that they are ALSO strapped for cash. That isn't stopping from investing in their FLAGSHIP parks: Cedar Point, Canada's Wonderland, and Carowinds by adding Steel Vengeance, Valravn, Yukon Striker, Fury, Copperhead Strike (all FLAGSHIP rides), and hotels at the latter two parks. I have every right/privilege/whatever you want to call it when a park chain does not invest in their FLAGSHIP, especially when the other big guns are doing so.


    You don't seem to understand what a flagship is.
     
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  5. Pokemaniac

    Pokemaniac Mountain monkey Staff Member Administrator Moderator Social Media Team

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    Problem is, though, that X2, Tatsu, Superman, Goliath and the rest will not last forever. They have a technical lifespan, and there's a limit to how long they will draw visitors as well. One day, a track inspection will register too much wear for the coaster to operate normally. The hydraulics might give out. Corrosion occur in footers. Spare parts might no longer remain available. And then what?

    Say, for instance, that Scream gave out one day. It's not the most profilic or well-received coaster at the park, but its departure would be a loss to the lineup, taking away a bigger draw than anything built since the bankruptcy. None of the rides added in the past decade could make up for it. Or take Riddler. X2. Goliath. Tatsu. Even the Batman clone. Those are the rides people go to SFMM to experience, the huge coasters. Smaller ones like Apocalypse, Green Lantern, or even Full Throttle don't have the same staying factor, they're not part of the park's backbone to the same degree. When they reach the age of 20, will any of them enjoy the popularity something like Riddler has today? Will their inclusion in the lineup in 2030 draw as many people to the park as X2 does right now?

    Those existing backbone coasters can't hold out forever. I assume Viper will be the first to go, it turns 30 in a couple of years, its track/car style is years out of style and the original manufacturer is long since gone. Then, if the B&Ms all can be expected to have the same lifespan, they four of them will kick the bucket within 12 years of each other (Goliath being exact in the middle of them in terms of age). X2 is a huge and complicated beast whose model line hasn't exactly been in high demand, for how long will S&S continue to provide service? For how long will the park be able to maintain it after that? For shorter or longer than the B&Ms? It's of roughly the same age, so it will need to be replaced around the same time too. The day any of those coasters die, the public will expect something on a similar scale to take its place. Assuming their lifespans to be more or less the same, they will be lost at a much faster rate than their successors are being built.

    The coasters SFMM has built this past decade will be the fallback options when the current backbone coasters start to give in, but I don't think they're imposing enough to keep the park attendance up in that event. They are built to be the icing on the cake, neat additions to a strong, existing lineup, but when somebody takes a slice out of that cake you can't fill the hole in with only icing and expect the cake to stay as tasty as before. While their strategy of small investments, flashy branding and gimmicks is working in the short term, the Six Flags parks will look radically different in 20 years if they don't sprinkle the lineup with mainstay coasters every now and then too, since the parks are currently relying on coasters of a scale that won't be around in the future (unless they start building them, like, immediately). In that sense, West Coast Racers is more icing, meant to add to the existing lineup rather than carrying it through the coming decades. That's why it's a bit of a disappointment.

    At least we can hold on to the hope that SFMM will stop at 20 coasters, declare 20 to be a nice number, and then start acting on a strategy to replace the aging oldies before they start failing. Because if they get to live out their full life spans, they will be lost in very rapid succession, and I doubt Six Flags will have the funds to replace them at that rate. Heck, the bankruptcy suggests they never had.
     
  6. John Knotts

    John Knotts Active Member

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    One of many, many articles if you do a simple search...

    http://ir.cedarfair.com/newsroom/pr...Through-July-4th-Holiday-Weekend/default.aspx

    I got the Cedar Point "flat" info directly from the Cedar Fair conference call last month.

    And for the record, Six Flags is no longer building flagship rides at ANY of it's properties, SFMM included. You should be used to that by now. The largest park in the chain (SFGadv) just a few years ago opened a super loop as a stand out attraction. They consider rides like El Toro, Kingda Ka, Tatsu and X2 their flagship rides, and have no interest in adding new ones (outside of the RMC conversions). I'm not defending them, it's just the way it is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  7. Antinos

    Antinos Slut for Spinners Social Media Team

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    I've read it three times now. Literally nowhere does it say "Cedar Point's attendance is flat." What it DOES say is "Although early-season attendance at our seasonal parks through this past weekend has not met our expectations, we are encouraged by the positive guest response to our new rides and attractions, in particular our new coasters Steel Vengeance at Cedar Point and Hang Time at Knott's Berry Farm." That's talking about all 11 parks in the chain, not just Cedar Point. Their note regarding encouragement from positive guest response suggests suggests that their is, in fact, an attendance bump at Cedar Point. They also point out that "demand within our resort properties has been very strong, particularly at Cedar Point, where we recently opened a new 158-room tower at the historic Hotel Breakers located on the park's mile-long beach." This suggests that - you guessed it - attendance is up. You want to prove me wrong? Provide attendance numbers.

    And again, please try reading the entire post next time where I already pointed out two examples of park chains that are STILL adding new flagships despite their financial states. As I already stated, Six Flags is cash strapped and building cheap rides. Once again, I'm disappointed in that even if "it is the way it is" now. Yet Cedar Point didn't stop with Millennium Force, nor did Canada's Wonderland stop with Behemoth, nor did Carowinds stop with Intimidator, nor did Sea World Orlando stop with Manta...the list goes on and on...but I guess continuing to add flagships "is the way it is" for Cedar Fair, Busch Gardens, Sea World. Sucks to suck that Six Flags can't hang, and I'm going to continue to be disappointed about that.
     
  8. John Knotts

    John Knotts Active Member

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    Read between the lines, if Cedar Point were the shining light of the chain, you know they would be yelling from the rooftops to their investors.
    And were all disappointed in the "cash strapped" Six Flags. It sucks that 10 years from now we will have a park full of one trick ponies and the only flagship park without a legit hyper or giga. But sorry, they don't care. They care about milking as much money as they can from guests, with as little output as possible. The polar opposite of all those others you mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  9. Snoo

    Snoo Well-Known Member

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    Read between the lines? John, you're still trying to pull :emoji_poop: out of your ass to fit your own narrative. That's not how quarterly reports go for a major corporation. Antinos said it all so I won't reiterate to be honest. However, I CAN assure you that Six Flags does indeed care, quite a bit in fact. If you look at their installations over the years, that is testament to that fact. However, the fact does still remain that resting on your laurels and hoping your attendance doesn't decline rapidly because of crap installations is not the route to take.. as EVERY other major chain, both in the US and abroad, can confirm via their own activities.
     
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  10. John Knotts

    John Knotts Active Member

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    I don't have a narrative...so that's just "internet speak" on your part. The facts speak for themselves...major investments don't automatically lead to a bump in attendance. And honestly, SF may be installing cheap attractions, but whether they are resting on their laurels or not has yet to be seen. We'll see if West Coast Racers brings in the crowds or not. If it does, that's all that's going to matter to them. If it doesn't, then we might see something different.

    Either way, they couldn't give two :emoji_poop:s what us enthusiasts and arm chair CEOs think.

    Anyhoo... We should probably move on, as no one's opinion is going to change, so... Eh.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  11. tomahawk

    tomahawk Moderator Staff Member Moderator Social Media Team

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    What's more important than a visit? A second visit. The crap SF is coming out with does not result in multiple visits to ride the same new attraction. There is a reason X2 and Tatsu consistently have the longest lines and have over the past 10-15 years per attraction.

    It's not just the :emoji_poop:ty ops.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  12. DelPiero

    DelPiero Well-Known Member

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  13. Matt N

    Matt N Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I've ever been so confused reading one page of discussion...
     
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  14. Snoo

    Snoo Well-Known Member

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    The TLDR, Six Flags is building rides that won't sustain itself in the long haul and/or rides that fit their lineup. The discussion has revolved around that for the most part, including WCR. There have been some tangents, mostly caused from stubborn folks named John, but that has been the majority of the convo. Carry on. :p
     
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  15. Matt N

    Matt N Well-Known Member

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    Ah right. Thanks @Snoo!
     
  16. John Knotts

    John Knotts Active Member

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    Yeah...I'm the stubborn one lol
    I'd imagine if these current rides do sustain themselves, they'll simply replace them with even cheaper, shorter rides. Super Loops will never go out of style. ;)
     
  17. Snoo

    Snoo Well-Known Member

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    STOP BEING STUBBORN JOHN! :p

    I do agree about sustainability but as noted before, I do worry about long term with older rides going by the wayside and nothing good and new at a few parks being built. You could definitely run into a ValleyFair/MichigansAdventure type deal.. something we're already seeing, at many Six Flags parks.
     
  18. John Knotts

    John Knotts Active Member

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    ^ Well...Nothing lasts forever, so we can only hope that sometime in the next 5 years the chain sees a major shift in leadership. Someone who recognizes that SFMM was once pace for pace, right up there with Cedar Point, and needs to be there again. But who makes smart choices, not just big rides for the sake of big rides. Untill then, at least SFMM will have diversified it's offerings with a few flats and rides for the entire family.
     
  19. EthanCoaster

    EthanCoaster Well-Known Member

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    Jim Reid Anderson is a national treasure. Can we at least keep him for the yearly announcement videos?
     
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  20. Matt N

    Matt N Well-Known Member

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    I agree! Jim would work just as well as a "face of Six Flags" so to speak as he does as a CEO, if you ask me!
     

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