Pink Cadillac
Giga Poster
It's not overrated, but it's not the best park in the world. Disneyland Paris and Magic Kingdom are much better. The GP agrees.
Overrated parks
- Thread starter balrog
- Start date
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
I often wonder how successful Disney would be if it didn't have the IP.
I don't think the GP objectively think the Disney parks ate better, they're just going because it's Disney.
I mean, they ARE better parks than Phantasialand... But that's not why the majority of people visit?
I dunno. No way to prove this theory either way. But, I think the lack of existence of parks that are like Disney without the brand is telling. Phantasialand is possibly closest?
I don't think the GP objectively think the Disney parks ate better, they're just going because it's Disney.
I mean, they ARE better parks than Phantasialand... But that's not why the majority of people visit?
I dunno. No way to prove this theory either way. But, I think the lack of existence of parks that are like Disney without the brand is telling. Phantasialand is possibly closest?
Edward M
Strata Poster
Disneysea though, Disneysea. I'm sorry, but I just really don't think Phantasialand is as quality as Disneysea. I'll save my official judgement for when I visit, but if Phantasialand is even comparable to Disneysea then I'm in for an unbelievable park visit. Perhaps I'm showing my Disney bias here (which I can admit I have), but there just doesn't look to be anything at Phantasialand with the amount of work, detail, or immersiveness of Disneysea's Mysterious Island or American Waterfront. I'd be interested to hear from people who have been to both since they are both often cited as two of the best parks in the world. I think Phantasialand looks like one of the top 3 parks in the world, just not number one.
HeartlineCoaster
Theme Park Superhero
Don't quite understand this one. What characteristics of a Disney park are you looking for in others?
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Disney parks are objectively better than Phantasia, and every other park, mostly just because they are designed from the ground up with considerations made for attraction mix, layout, etc. as a cohesive whole. The infrastructure at Magic Kingdom is the best in the world and most issues with parks all around the world stem from having an unfixable base. Disney also have insane amounts of money and whilst it's clear Phantasialand isn't struggling at all, no parks in the world have the money poured into their everyday operation like Disney do. From staffing numbers to after hours repairs, cleaning, etc. Europa Park are (ironically lol) from what I hear pretty outstanding on the operational front, too... But the difference is that they (imo, cuz apparently I have to point this out) lack something special that Disney Parks maintain in umph, which I think is their stylization just not appealing to me. Phantasialand is my favourite park for sure and part of the reason for that is how its flaws are actually some of the best things about the park? Like how, layout wise it's a ****ing mess. It has stairs and narrow pathways and the tall theming blocks any sense of finding your way. But that creates is a world that feels more immersive, so I'm willing to let it slide as long as I never have to visit on a busy day. Disney will sacrifice immersion for practicality, and so they should.
Disney's Animal Kingdom is my favourite Disney park (that I've been to) in my opinion because it has a lot more of that Phantasia style immersion going on, enabled by all that damn foliage.
Disney's Animal Kingdom is my favourite Disney park (that I've been to) in my opinion because it has a lot more of that Phantasia style immersion going on, enabled by all that damn foliage.
Like, a park with that level of thematic consistency and detailing and storytelling? There literally are no examples outside of Disney.
Edward M
Strata Poster
^ I agree with this wholeheartedly. The flaws and quirks of Animal Kingdom make it my favorite park in WDW. I imagine I will love Phantasialand, but it's hard to ignore the sheer amount of work and money put into these Disney parks. Tokyo Disneysea cost, in today's currency, $5.5 billion. I mean, that's simply insane. It's certainly not a one off thing though. Every Disney park (except CA Adv, Disneyland, and Walt Disney Studios which either were criticized for being small or cheap OR were made in 1955) has cost over $1 billion, adjusting for inflation. When Epcot was built, it was the most expensive establishment ever built. The money pumped into these places is unreal. It's just hard for any other company to compare. The only other comparable park would be Universal, but their best still isn't near the amount spent on Disney's best. Diagon Alley, often considered Universal's best, cost $400 million. While Disney's new Avatar Land cost $500 million. Both Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios Florida cost $1.5 and $1.2 billion respectively, adjusting for inflation. This puts them in the range of Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios, respectively. This is nothing compared to the average Disney castle park. If looking at parks from a purely objective perspective, focusing on quality, detail, craftsmanship, infrastructure, and immersiveness, Disney parks are better than any other theme park in the world, no argument. People can prefer any park they want, but Disney parks are objectively the best theme parks in the world. Just watch any video of imagineers and the construction process behind these rides. It's an unreal and inspiring thing to witness.
Sandman
Giga Poster
I think it's hard to compare Disney to parks like Phantasialand. Phantasialand is one pretty small park whereas Disney are ****ing massive and omnipresent like a theme park God. In a way, that makes a park like Phantasia more special because it's very much stand alone. It's more common to encounter Disney than it is Phantasialand for large portion of the world, so yeah, I guess that gives both Disney and Phantasialand their own contrasting qualities.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Go. It's so easy to get to Phantasialand and it's open almost all year. If you go out of season, even their hotel is affordable. It's like just over €100 for one night and a park entry, and you get bloody ert! GO!
It's amazing visiting a park that has rides Disney would never even consider build because it cannot find a diegetic purpose to their hardware, but with over the top decoration akin to Disney. It's what makes it special... it's a best of both park.
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Edward M
Strata Poster
I really can't wait to go. I'm hoping to do a France/Germany trip next year with Phantasialand and DL Paris and maybe some others along the way. The issue with a Europe trip for me is that I'm unsure where to go! Italy for the culture, Sweden for the amazing creds, or France/Germany for the theme parks. I'll probably have to do three separate trips, but I imagine France/Germany will be first.
So as to not just continue to post about things not relating to overrated parks, I'm going to shout out Holiday World. It's a nice little park, but people seem to hype it up as this amazing theme park that is so inspiring. It's good, but it's really not that memorable overall. Voyage though <3
EDIT: one quick note, I have to say that I totally understand why people on a roller coaster based website would prefer a park with great roller coasters and theming to one with mediocre coasters and great theming. I just generally prefer an amazing dark ride to an amazing coaster. However, that's just me.
DelPiero
Strata Poster
Shanghai aside (Pirates and Tron look excellent), the hardware at all the Disney parks is poor. Yes, the theming in general elevates the parks, but I'm yet to plan a trip to Disney as an adult for the simple reason that nothing is enticing me there. If they had an amazing Intamin or a well themed Invert then my plans would change, but they don't.
So as much as they are great theme parks in general, their ride selection severely lets them down and if this was a Six Flags park with Six Flags theming and maintenance then noone would be lauding it. Theming and IP only gets you so far.
IOA ****s all over Disney tbf.
So as much as they are great theme parks in general, their ride selection severely lets them down and if this was a Six Flags park with Six Flags theming and maintenance then noone would be lauding it. Theming and IP only gets you so far.
IOA ****s all over Disney tbf.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
You're mistaking personal taste for objective quality, though.
I disagree that theming and IP only gets you so far.. Disney are miles ahead of the competition, why? I think it's mostly brand and established market dominance, mostly. Disney dominate the market.
Disney have complete, logical, believable, narrative driven environments and attractions. So, where Black Mamba can exist at Phantasialand as a roller coaster with intense decorative theming, perhaps we would go as far to say that it is a kind of abstract representation of the power and danger of the snake from which it gets its name... But, we're not about to ride on the back of that giant snake - that would be stupid. We are about to ride a roller coaster. Big Thunder Mountain is different, it is absolutely meant to be a train ride through the wilderness and it makes plausible sense. What I hate is when parks try to do this Disney **** (even Disney themselves) with ridiculous vehicles. Either accept that the vehicle is just a convention of the medium, or pick something where it makes sense.
Is one method any better than the other? I too would rather have a good ride, personally... But neither of us are Disney's target demographic. Your comment about not wanting to visit Disney as an adult is not an insult to their product in the slightest like you seem to think it is.
Edit: oh, also... Their hardware isn't poor.
What you mean is they don't have good roller coasters. Correct, they do not. But I've explained why. They don't want roller coasters, they want experiences... If roller coasters can help them tell the experience, if they are the correct hardware, the correct tool in order to achieve that, then they get a roller coaster.
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DelPiero
Strata Poster
Maybe so, but I don't have much experience with the parks, so effectively I'm pre-judging and they do not appeal.
The kids market. Hell, I'm planning on taking the kids soon, not for my enjoyment, but for theirs. I fully expect them to want to go to other, better parks when they grow up though.
I agree with this, when the stars align and they use good hardware the full experience is excellent, Splash Mountain and ToT for example.
I actually am their target demographic as a parent to 2 young children, and while DLP is on the cards, It's convenience as to why we will go there, and to provide the kids with the experience. But I won't be booking yearly trips to Florida as I believe my family would benefit from other parks, not just Disney.
IOA has 3 water rides which are better than anything I'm aware of at the Disney parks, Splash Mountain is close, but Dudley's is better.
PL has 2 water rides which are better than the Disney parks.
Is this down to being better themed or better ride hardware? I'd argue the experiences at both IOA and PL for these water rides are significantly better than Disney.
IOA also have 2 of the best dark rides in the world, with different, excellent hardware. Nothing at Disney compares, apart from the aforementioned Pirates @ Shanghai.
Coasters too obviously, but the water ride point is glaringly obvious. I'd argue that a Colorado Adventure mine train would have worked better than the swinging version of Seven Dwarves, so whilst they will get a coaster to sell their experience, they go for the safe, and in my opinion, boring option.
While I very much enjoyed my trips to DW Florida when I was a kid, and I obviously have some fondness for Disney's characters and films, I believe they've made incorrect choices with hardware to sell their experiences. Especially when compared with other well themed parks. That's not to say I dislike the parks or their current experiences but I can't agree with comparing the overall package to either IOA or PL, as there seems to be a significant gap in quality.
Edward M
Strata Poster
Just a no to this, really. Their hardware? I'll admit, Disney aggravates me with their use of constant omnimovers or boat rides. However, they pioneered the use of literally everything at theme parks, from roller coasters to dark rides. As a result, I give them a break with the older systems. As with the new systems, Pooh's Hunny Hunt? Test Track, Journey, Radiator Springs Racers? Flight of Passage? Indiana Jones Adventure? These are all incredibly complex systems for rides. They are far more complicated than pretty much anything found at any other theme park. I will give you IOA's Spiderman and Harry Potter FJ. They are both up there as some of the most complex vehicles for a dark ride. However, Universal is just as guilty with using some very lazy methods for their rides. Other than Spiderman and Harry Potter FJ, their ride systems are even more uninspired than Disney's can be! I mean this is true for any park. There really aren't too many ride systems that exist. If anything, I've found Disney has the most variety. I think you're just being a bit unfair to them and ignoring the sheer amount of work and craft required not only for these vehicles but for the effects that have to work 12 hours a day, constantly. They are a part of the hardware that is hard to ignore. The animatronics, effects, and projections are integral to the overall experiences. In terms of effects, Disney is unmatched. Seeing a ride as little more than a vehicle is a foolish assumption. While Dudley-Do-Right may do more as a log flume than Splash Mountain, Splash Mountain has dozens more animatronics, show buildings, and immersive theming than Dudley. Its hardware is much, much more impressive. I can agree that Disney's rapid rides are rather lacking, but their water rides are phenomenal if you include rides like Pirates of the Caribbean and Sinbad's Storybook Voyage. These rides are more than their respective vehicles. They have incredibly fluent and complicated animatronics and sets. Sinbad especially is impressive with nearly 150 unbelievable animatronics. That is a feat that a park like IOA or PL cannot get near. Seeing Disney as little more than a collection of ride vehicles is insane. Sure, there are simple systems used. I can admit that. However, this is ignoring the insane infrastructure, theming, restaurants, shops, and sheer creativity that is poured into these Disney parks. Saying that IOA is a better quality park, by a significant gap. It just seems like you're not really looking at Disney fairly. You have even admitted that you don't have much experience with Disney. As a result, I find your points have no real weight in reality. They just don't really hold any ground, for me at least. While they may not appeal to you personally, you can't say they aren't a quality experience. Because this is simply wrong. Perhaps you would enjoy a park like Tokyo Disneysea more than a Magic Kingdom since it is aiming more towards an adults. You should give the parks another try! If you want to stick to America, Animal Kingdom has grown significantly. Give the parks another chance. There's plenty to love there.
DelPiero
Strata Poster
I'll be giving them a chance @Edward M of course, I haven't been to WDW for around 20 years so I'm definitely due a return visit. Shanghai and Disneysea will happen eventually.
I won't pick apart your post as it has plenty of fair points I don't wish to argue, but in my limited experience, the other 2 non Disney parks left a much bigger impression on me compared to my trips many years ago to WDW and DLP.
I won't pick apart your post as it has plenty of fair points I don't wish to argue, but in my limited experience, the other 2 non Disney parks left a much bigger impression on me compared to my trips many years ago to WDW and DLP.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Love that post, much better than the original dismissive one on the previous page. 
But, Dudley's as physical sensation obviously wins out for me, but I don't particularly care for its aesthetic. In fact, all of Toon Lagoon is a bit dumpy imo. I really don't like the toony cut out look, I just don't think it translates well and it ages so badly as well as sticking out like a sore thumb at IOA's otherwise very natural and mysterious aesthetic... I think there are better solutions to theming for kids than just making it toony? I worry about Nintendo, to be honest. Toony theming gets dirty where more natural visuals hide dirt. So, not sure I agree here that Dudley's is overall better, but I get your point that it's a more fun ride experience. I think Orlando's Splash has better boat configuration. The conventional log flume seating is a capacity nightmare, speaking as someone who has worked with one, and should die out, frankly.
I've not ridden their rapids... I've actually not ridden Orlando's Splash Mountain either, so this is messy because we've experienced different things...
But, Dudley's as physical sensation obviously wins out for me, but I don't particularly care for its aesthetic. In fact, all of Toon Lagoon is a bit dumpy imo. I really don't like the toony cut out look, I just don't think it translates well and it ages so badly as well as sticking out like a sore thumb at IOA's otherwise very natural and mysterious aesthetic... I think there are better solutions to theming for kids than just making it toony? I worry about Nintendo, to be honest. Toony theming gets dirty where more natural visuals hide dirt. So, not sure I agree here that Dudley's is overall better, but I get your point that it's a more fun ride experience. I think Orlando's Splash has better boat configuration. The conventional log flume seating is a capacity nightmare, speaking as someone who has worked with one, and should die out, frankly.
Disagree. Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland is my favourite dark ride and I think it outclasses Universal's dark rides completely. The reason why is that it takes the dramatic movement that often gives Uni's attractions the edge of Disney's and combined that with outstanding spectacle. There are no bull**** screens which is ultimately my main critique of Universal parks... ****ing screens. I'm here to live the movies, not watch them. TOT is also, obviously, incredible. Is it a better dark ride than Spiderman or the Potters? Ok, probably not, but that's more down to attraction style. The vast majority of Disney's other dark rides are simply aimed at younger audiences, so it's not fair to compare. It would be more fair to compare that dark ride in the Seuss area to MK's little Mermaid, and I would say Mermaid wins out, and Mermaid isn't even good.
They already have a Colorado Adventure, though! Big Thunder is literally the same thing. I think Big Thunder is better, too. Both thematically and, for some reason, Colorado is just so uncomfortable? Seven Dwarves is, again, about audience differences... I actually think they went with a less safe option. Would I have rathered they stayed away from a mine train completely and broadened the scope? Yeah, absolutely. But they clearly wanted a major attraction to fit within Fantasyland and went from there. Half the reason they have the hardware they do is because they work with companies who will bend to their whims. Look how long it took to get B&M to do anything outside of their safety net? Meanwhile, Vekoma have been creating what Disney want them to. That's the main difference here, it's not Disney choosing one manufacturer over another, the manufacturers chose Disney in their willingness to provide what Disney needed.
Hm. I don't know to be honest. What I do think, relating to the incorrect choices point, is that the rest of the industry looking at Disney miss the point a lot. Like, a lot of Merlin's attractions would (imo) be a lot better if they took a step back and realised that sometimes a story isn't important. Like, Zufari could have been amazing if they just focused on making a safari ride pretty and ditched the narrative elements. I think that's why Universal is doing so well and has made such an outstanding competitor. They've managed to make Disney freak out several times and Disney made stupid mistakes in response, like building MGM, California Adventure's misdirection and now Pandora. They are different experiences, Universal and Disney, and both do their thing very, very well. There are parts worth borrowing from both, but both can exist together because they still offer very different things.
Edward M
Strata Poster
I can completely understand this. To be fair, until about 2015, I was purely pro Universal, anti Disney. Universal gave me an initial interest in thrilling dark rides and helped me find Disney. I don't want to come off as harsh or anything. I can completely understand disliking Disney. They often ignore the large demographic of teens and can really lack thrills. They are ridiculously expensive, often don't have enough rides for the prices at their parks. For someone looking for a thrilling day out with coasters, water rides, and great dark rides, I would suggest IOA over any other Orlando park. I love the park so much, and a day there is fantastic. Perhaps my personal interests have blinded me to certain viewpoints; I want to be as fair as possible to all opinions. It's just that my passion for imagineering can often be very, very intense. It's something I may pursue as a job and is also something I often research and look into. I really can't wait to visit Phantasialand; I expect to be amazing. World class theming on an Intamin? Yes please!!!
DelPiero
Strata Poster
Nicely reasoned post and appreciated. You're such a Disney Fanboy tho