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NoLimits 2 perfect Spiral Lifthill

Discussion in 'Coaster Games' started by Ireeb, Sep 26, 2017.

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  1. Ireeb

    Ireeb Well-Known Member

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    As a fan of Eurosat, which features a spiral lifthill, I wanted to make my own version of it, but I couldn't figure out how to make a perfect spiral lifthill.
    When I just tried to do it by hand, there always were irregularities and even when I used the curve formula to make 360° curves there were small irregularities that added up though.
    I guess the best way would be to make a custom formula, but I have no idea how to do it or what formula I need.
    If anyone here can help me with this, I would appreciate it a lot :)
     
  2. Hixee

    Hixee Flojector Staff Member Administrator Moderator CF Award Winner 2016

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    I may be suggesting things that you've already tried, but...

    CF unfortunately doesn't have the biggest NL2 community. Those of us that do use it are, generally speaking, a little old fashioned and come from the "hand building only" era (or the "no tools generation" in an alternative form). Building this sort of thing by hand is tricky. It's possible, but requires a bit of work. I think your best bets are:
    • Circle building: this was a technique used loads back in the day, and always fell in between the tools/no-tools cracks. The idea (if you know this, apologies) is that you import a 3D object into the scene and use that as a node/track guide. For example, import a large circle that, when viewed from above, gives you the diameter of lift you're after. In plan view you then align your nodes to the shape (I'd suggest at least a node every 45°), and use the control handles to keep the track following the circumference of the circle. You can the view the elevations to sort out the height differences (you could use a support beam at a given angle to help keeping the angle of ascent constant too).
    • FVD: Force Vector Design software can definitely create this kind of track shape very quickly. Unfortunately I've no idea how this works, so you'd have to rely on someone else (either here, on YouTube, or the forums)!
    • Reddit (r/nolimitscoaster) or the NL Exchange forums used to have good communities with a lot of strong technical knowledge. They would be good places to see if someone has a smart idea for making this!
    Sorry I can't really be of more help, but hopefully it's a start! Be sure to share you track here when it's done!
     
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  3. Ireeb

    Ireeb Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions! Using 3D Models and do it by hand would probably overstrain my patience :D I know a little bit about FWD with the built-in designer, but I only used it for curves and Zero-G-Rolls so far and I don't know how I could make a spiral with it.
    I didn't know there's a Reddit community for that, I think I actually have a Reddit account, but I am never using it, I could use it for this though.
    I just thought I'd ask here first before creating accounts on other websites, perhaps somebody here has built a spiral lifthill before :D I am still a beginner with NL2, but I thought a family coaster inspired by Eurosat may be a good practice (even though I'm not planning to squeeze it into a building or so, that would make it too hard again.) If I'm satisfied with the result, I may post it - also to get feedback.

    Anyway, thanks again for your effort and the suggestions :)
     
  4. Ireeb

    Ireeb Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Asking the NL2 Reddit was a very good idea. I did this with FVD++ :)
     
  5. Hixee

    Hixee Flojector Staff Member Administrator Moderator CF Award Winner 2016

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    Wahey! Bravo! This might have unlocked a whole load of possibilities for you now. :p

    Maybe I should try to get back in to NL2, I always liked the idea of doing the maths for FVD++ type designs... If only I could find the time these days!
     
  6. Ireeb

    Ireeb Well-Known Member

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    I only made this so far in FVD++, mostly by trial and error, and a little bit of YouTube for the basics, but it looks like a very good program compared to the NL2 Editor. Actually I think it is faster and easier in some situations. You don't work with verticies, you tell the program what you want and it will create it for you. I just had to tell it to bend the track for x° per second and constantly go up y°, and then repeat that for a certain time. It automatically smoothes the transitions as well, and you can choose how (e.g. linear or quadratic).
    I'll probably do the rest of this coaster in NL though, since I don't think I need to work that exact on a family coaster that I just create for practice. I think Franz Mack would have been glad if he had more than a calculator when he drew Eurosat :D
     
  7. Hixee

    Hixee Flojector Staff Member Administrator Moderator CF Award Winner 2016

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    Back in the day I did dabble with Newton and/or the HSAK (Helix Swiss Army Knife), which I think were the precursors to FVD. I never fully dedicated the time to learning it, but I did get the hang of doing some reasonably complex track shaping (zero-g rolls, corkscrews, etc).

    I always had a thing for hand-building, to be honest, but the tools approach (Newton/HSAK back then, and FVD++ now) was always appealing due to the realistic nature of the software - after all, it's how the manufacturers actually do it*!

    *Besides Gerstlauer, I'm convinced their track shaping is still done by hand..
     
  8. Ireeb

    Ireeb Well-Known Member

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    FVD++ is seen as the better Newton.
    I was shocked last time when I rode Karacho (Which was built in 2013), because it is already starting to get rough and the curve before the MCBR has a noticeable jolt. Also the track wobble is slightly unsettling. The tophat and the loop are shaking after every car.
     
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  9. Hixee

    Hixee Flojector Staff Member Administrator Moderator CF Award Winner 2016

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    Yeah, for sure. I've been having a little browse of some tutorial videos - maybe I'll think about giving it a go!

    I think most, if not all, Gerstlauers have that sort of sketchy shaping. It's very apparent on Smiler (the final corkscrews in particular), Fluch von Novgorod (the outdoor figure eight element thing), Saw (all of it? haha), many of their newer coasters. It's a shame really, as I think the layouts are often very impressive, but their execution is often just short of them being able to be world class coasters.

    Funnily, this doesn't really bother me!
     
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  10. Ireeb

    Ireeb Well-Known Member

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    It's not that I am afraid of anything breaking*, but I just think coaster tracks shouldn't shake like that. It makes it look like it's made of plastic.
    (*maybe when I think about the bolts that fell off from The Smiler.)
    I really like the ideas and concepts of Gerstlauer, with the short trains and medium sized but still fun coasters, it's a pity they have such imperfections that shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
    When I have finished my current project, I may also build a coaster with FVD++, it is just so much more professional than NL2's editor (of course, NL2 is still good for basic stuff and a good simulator)
     
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