Merlin & Wooden Coasters

[SaiyanHajime]

Could it also be a past known histoty of wooden coaster accidents over there that may help with the insafe viewpoint?

I don't know of any that are serious or well known.

I believe it's literally this...

1. Unlike in the USA, where wood is used to build everything, the British public (including myself) find it hard to take wood as a construction material seriously. It's perceived as outdated and unsafe, as a cheap or green alternative, not a serious practical one. Brick, concrete and steel are strong, long lasting materials, why would you use wood??

2. Out of the 9 wooden coasters in the UK, 7 are classics. The two modern ones are Antelope (a kiddy coaster) and Megafobia. Megafobia is in the arse end of nowhere Whales. NO one's riden it to know it's good. The wooden coasters at foreign parks Brits are likely to visit are all **** too. Gwazi, Stampeda, Magnus Colossus and I guess you can throw Woodan in there, because that seems to be a big fluffy let down. At least it doesn't hurt you though?

3. Old = boring. We don't have the obsession with nostalgia Americans do.

4. Space, planning regulations, etc. Wooden coasters are large dense structures and they are noisy. Most (all?) UK parks have issues with these things.

But it's disappointing, because our public does have an obsession for intense and extreme rides. I'd say more so than the USA... That could be due to the lack of huge coasters here, but that's besides the point. If a good quality wood was built at Alton, Thorpe, Drayton or Flamingo-land, I believe it would be successful. There are several marketing opportunities which would go down well.

 

[Intricks]

Re: Merlin & Wooden Coasters

Werent there several accidents involving old wooden coaster put into the accidents thread? I swear one involved a bunch of kids and another got it banned entirely (or something close). Furie posted them I believe (or at least commented on them). Plus you have Dipper at Black Pool up on youtube.

I dont really see that much with any of the major coasters here, albeit the past is more cloudy as I never really researched that far back and our coasters were far more spread out back then for a period of time.

I do agree about our mass use of wood in everyday construction purposes, but that cant be a main deciding factor.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Big Dipper derailed recently, but no one was hurt and I don't think the public even really heard about it. I think the public's perception of wooden coaster safety is very much a kind of "they are dangerous, even though I've never heard of any accidents regarding them."

I think the construction material IS the deciding factor, just not in the way you're thinking.

Because in the USA you don't think anything of criticising wood to start with, because it's used so often. There's nothing scary or weird about using it, so the public can open their arms to the benefits of being used for construction of a roller coaster - the nostalgia, the thematic appearance of it, the ride qualities. Also remember that, in the USA, there's more room to build big airtime machines, so the public are more familiar with the ride experience of going up and down. In the UK, wood is like... unheard of as a construction material to most people, so why WOULD you use it on a roller coaster? It doesn't even allow people to start considering the benefits.

You guys build your houses of wood, you must trust it. We use brick and concrete, we don't even allow the idea of wood to bloom. I really think that matters.

 

[furie]

The fact that a woodie was planned for Saws site is encouraging though, shows that Merlin haven't completely give up on the idea of a wooden coaster.

Was the plan Merlin's or Tussauds'?

Werent there several accidents involving old wooden coaster put into the accidents thread? I swear one involved a bunch of kids and another got it banned entirely (or something close). Furie posted them I believe (or at least commented on them). Plus you have Dipper at Black Pool up on youtube.

Major incident in the early 70's that certainly caused issues with the perception of wooden coasters for that generation. I also grew up hearing horror stories of people dying on the Blackpool Coasters. However, we're a couple of generations away from that and Blackpool have had less accidents on their woodies in the last 20 years than they have on their steel coasters. So there shouldn't be a residual mistrust, but I think part of the thrill Blackpool offers is that the coasters are "old and rickety" and because (as Joey says) we don't have any good experience with wooden coasters - that's the image that always remains.

 

[nadroJ]

Joey, is there any way you could contact Merlin and try and get a copy of the questions they asked in that survey? Seeing as it's for scientific research and all ;]

 

[spicy]

Re: Merlin & Wooden Coasters

The fact that a woodie was planned for Saws site is encouraging though, shows that Merlin haven't completely give up on the idea of a wooden coaster.

Was the plan Merlin's or Tussauds'?

Just had a quick look, you can view the plans here:

http://www.totalthorpepark.co.uk/featur ... shop.shtml

The plans are dated July '07, Merlin took over Tussauds in March '07, so I guess GCI would have been contacted whilst Tussauds still operated the park, therefore the plans would have been Tussauds..?

Maybe the Merlin takeover actually contributed to the woodie being cancelled and replaced with Saw? Depressing thought!

 

[Nic]

Joey touched upon it a few posts back - the British public just don't have experience of decent wooden coasters.

I still maintain that the main driving factor for getting a decent woodie in the UK would be if one of the main Florida parks got one. Fun Spot is a start, but really, how many Brits on their 2 week package deal are actually going to go there? However, I do wonder if it'll encourage one of the other parks to get a decent one? I dunno.

I do wonder if even that would be enough to get over the "boring" perception. As mentioned elsewhere, the British public appear to be genuinely stupid enough to think that anything which doesn't have a ton of inversions or a super fast launch isn't worth their time. Even if they rode a decent one and enjoyed it, I think it's too ingrained.

Actually, thinking about it, there is an argument that this attitude stems from a position of machismo and one-upmanship. "I wen on wun dat goez upsidaan mor times dan ne ova in da wurld!" is the kinda thing that might earn you a twat point or two amongst the right kind of numbskull company down the pub. Unfortunately, "It has a really sophisticated layout with tight turns and loads of airtime" doesn't really have the same impact among braindead Sun readers.

Sadly, I think people really are THAT stupid. I need to emigrate.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Actually, thinking about it, there is an argument that this attitude stems from a position of machismo and one-upmanship. "I wen on wun dat goez upsidaan mor times dan ne ova in da wurld!" is the kinda thing that might earn you a twat point or two amongst the right kind of numbskull company down the pub. Unfortunately, "It has a really sophisticated layout with tight turns and loads of airtime" doesn't really have the same impact among braindead Sun readers.

I don't think people go home and boast, tbh.

However, I do think whatever impression a ride makes before riding will stay with most people, unless the ride experience is particularly different to that.

But the thing is, most wooden coasters ARE extreme... So it wouldn't take a lot to shatter their assumptions. Especially if it was something long and relentless.

Joey, is there any way you could contact Merlin and try and get a copy of the questions they asked in that survey? Seeing as it's for scientific research and all ;]

Doubt it. Confidential material that competitors could use against them. Though, for research educational purposes, they may at least expand on it? Go get in touch.

 

[caffeine_demon]

Everyone loves stats! If you said to 100 people that you've just bought some new speakers, I reckon at least 90 of them would ask "how many watts", despite the fact that
1 - more watts doesn't mean better, louder or anything (clearer perhaps)
2 - speakers have a "power handling" measure, the thing that produces the power is the amp!

Heck, even though I know that some stats are useless - I still like em!!

 

[Martyn B]

If you said to 100 people that you've just bought some new speakers, I reckon at least 90 of them would ask "how many watts"

Really?

I would imagine the most popular response would be "so...", or "how much?"

 

[Taxi]

Thorpe could go for GCI's "Big Fun" model. Although a Plug&Play Intamin would be great. Something with a decent lenght would be great, just look at T Express(minus lift).

Yes, it is relatively large. But considering how much it does, it's nearly perfect for Thorpe.

 

[BBH]

The banning incident I think you were referring to was the City of Omaha in Nebraska, even to this day there is not a single coaster in Omaha because the ban stands.

 

[IntaminToWin]

Thorpe could go for GCI's "Big Fun" model. Although a Plug&Play Intamin would be great. Something with a decent lenght would be great, just look at T Express(minus lift).

Yes, it is relatively large. But considering how much it does, it's nearly perfect for Thorpe.

Big Fun would be so perfect...for any park. I really do feel bad for the general public in the UK not getting to experience the greatness that is wood- not even including the prefabs.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Merlin & Wooden Coasters

I still think a woodie could go at Thorpe, it would just have to be a hybrid and have the inversions, then of course it can have the incredibly steep drop as well, making it a woodie marketable to thrill seekers.

 

[Taxi]

I still think a woodie could go at Thorpe, it would just have to be a hybrid and have the inversions, then of course it can have the incredibly steep drop as well, making it a woodie marketable to thrill seekers.

A wooden coaster with inversions, that's defiantly going to sell to people who are afraid of wooden coasters. :lol:

 

[Intricks]

Re: Merlin & Wooden Coasters

Sadly enough, it very may will. People enjoy the adrenaline rush they get from a ride. It increases the more unsafe you believe you are. Example, my heart pounded far faster after riding Mindbender at SFoG than it did ever riding Dominator.

Selling an inverting woodie will be a way to show that Wooden coasters are still up there in excitement and can still provide an exilirating experience compareable to steel.

Add in Merlins PR stunts and I can see this being worked up quite well.

 

[Taxi]

A LSM-launching woodie sounds interesting though. Nothing too dramatic. A low-to the ground, quick-direction changes, giant fan turns, bunny hills....an all-around enjoyable wooden coaster. Plus a barrel roll or two, this could be a HUGE hit! Think of it as a neutered-down wooden Maverick. This park could use something unique in it's overall coaster collection.

 

[IntaminToWin]

Sadly enough, it very may will. People enjoy the adrenaline rush they get from a ride. It increases the more unsafe you believe you are. Example, my heart pounded far faster after riding Mindbender at SFoG than it did ever riding Dominator.

Selling an inverting woodie will be a way to show that Wooden coasters are still up there in excitement and can still provide an exilirating experience compareable to steel.

Add in Merlins PR stunts and I can see this being worked up quite well.

Just make an El Toro-ish woodie with a slightly taller drop. We don't need inversions. They aren't ever better than airtime hills, and call me a traditionalist, but it ruins the entire character of a woodie to put inversions in it, let alone make it a prefabricated one. They become barely woodies at that point.

 

[marc]

Re: Merlin & Wooden Coasters

From my experience with wooden coasters is they are so hit and miss, out of 100 probably only 10 are actually rated on par with a steel coaster. I've done 2 of them and they were ok but nothing great.

So I don't really want Merlin to get one unless its well planned out with a good layout. It will just be a complete waste of space if they don't go for a large one, which they simply would not do.

They take ages to warm up and are only any good at the end of the day or when wet.

So they should just go and get a hyper coaster.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I personally think the woodies built by Gravity Group and Rocky Mountain look MORE unstable and "dangerous" than traditional wooden coasters. The steel structure Gravity Group uses makes it look unstable. Anyone else get that vibe?