Formula 1 2010
- Thread starter Patrick
- Start date
Well what a joke that race was. It was the 2nd worst race of the year as it was nothing was going on at all.
Then Ferrari broke rules and gave that moaning idiot the win when Massa should have won.
I remember Alonso saying after Valencia that the race was manipulated and robbed the fans, well what was yesterday. I hope the FIA throw the book at them.
I hated Alonso and Ferrari anyway now I wish he would just **** off, smiling and being happy knowing he should not have won.
This is what Alonso said about the British press "You guys are just unhappy as your team finished 40 seconds down the track". Well Alonso who is leading both world championships
My fantasy F1 team is not doing well at all I am still trying to recover from missing the 1st race where the team I picked was Alonso, Massa and Hamilton
Then Ferrari broke rules and gave that moaning idiot the win when Massa should have won.
I remember Alonso saying after Valencia that the race was manipulated and robbed the fans, well what was yesterday. I hope the FIA throw the book at them.
I hated Alonso and Ferrari anyway now I wish he would just **** off, smiling and being happy knowing he should not have won.
This is what Alonso said about the British press "You guys are just unhappy as your team finished 40 seconds down the track". Well Alonso who is leading both world championships
My fantasy F1 team is not doing well at all
I am still trying to recover from missing the 1st race where the team I picked was Alonso, Massa and Hamilton 
Martyn
Giga Poster
The whole thing is stupid.
To be honest, I think the team orders rule is, and always was completely stupid. It's a team sport. If you don't want team orders, don't make teams enter two cars.
If I was a team boss, I'd do exactly the same thing. Everyone knows that defensive driving (which Massa would have had to do, because Alonso was quicker) slows you down, because you're off line for a lot of the time. So both Ferraris would have lost pace, but would be losing fuel and tyres, and Vettel would have caught up. You just wouldn't risk a shunt and losing two cars and all those points. It's common sense. The constructor championship is worth too much.
It's only because F1 is "popular" and needs to appeal to the billies with "great racing", but you shouldn't just write a rule in to contrive great racing.
Most of the drivers seemed to agree too, Coulthard, Schumacher etc. Eddie Jordan was just being a bellend as usual.
It's a shame the Ferrari personnel had to feed the media all that bullsh*t really, because it was quite clearly a team order, and they really shouldn't bother denying it. It's the rule that's silly though.
To be honest, I think the team orders rule is, and always was completely stupid. It's a team sport. If you don't want team orders, don't make teams enter two cars.
If I was a team boss, I'd do exactly the same thing. Everyone knows that defensive driving (which Massa would have had to do, because Alonso was quicker) slows you down, because you're off line for a lot of the time. So both Ferraris would have lost pace, but would be losing fuel and tyres, and Vettel would have caught up. You just wouldn't risk a shunt and losing two cars and all those points. It's common sense. The constructor championship is worth too much.
It's only because F1 is "popular" and needs to appeal to the billies with "great racing", but you shouldn't just write a rule in to contrive great racing.
Most of the drivers seemed to agree too, Coulthard, Schumacher etc. Eddie Jordan was just being a bellend as usual.
It's a shame the Ferrari personnel had to feed the media all that bullsh*t really, because it was quite clearly a team order, and they really shouldn't bother denying it. It's the rule that's silly though.
^I think that is the problem most people have, the fact that Ferrari are lying when they say it was not a team order.
Alonso had also been closer in the race than he was at that point and up until the radio message Massa had a 2.5 sec lead.
It does not really matter even if Alonso was faster, he should have passed Massa. Alonso's fastest lap was only 2ths faster than Massa as well both done in clean air on the same lap.
Yes F1 is a team sport but the team were running 1-2 they could not score more points than they were already going to score.
Vettel never got close to Ferrari in the race even when the drivers were racing after the pit stops.
There was simply no need to do what they done, Alonso is still miles behind in the drivers championship.
The rule is there thanks to Ferrari, so they broke the rule that was created to stop them doing what they done
Did RBR move Webber out the way in Turkey when Vettel was faster? did Mclaren move Lewis out the way when Button was faster?
Seeing that Lewis got done in 2009 for lying many expect the same to happen to Ferrari with either losing all points from Germany or a race ban.
Alonso had also been closer in the race than he was at that point and up until the radio message Massa had a 2.5 sec lead.
It does not really matter even if Alonso was faster, he should have passed Massa. Alonso's fastest lap was only 2ths faster than Massa as well both done in clean air on the same lap.
Yes F1 is a team sport but the team were running 1-2 they could not score more points than they were already going to score.
Vettel never got close to Ferrari in the race even when the drivers were racing after the pit stops.
There was simply no need to do what they done, Alonso is still miles behind in the drivers championship.
The rule is there thanks to Ferrari, so they broke the rule that was created to stop them doing what they done
Did RBR move Webber out the way in Turkey when Vettel was faster? did Mclaren move Lewis out the way when Button was faster?
Seeing that Lewis got done in 2009 for lying many expect the same to happen to Ferrari with either losing all points from Germany or a race ban.
robbeal
Hyper Poster
I don't think Ferrari could be seen to publicly admit to breaking the rules, it'd be worse for PR. They've been punished, we all know they broke a rule, but if they came out and said "Yeah, we decided to break this rule", it'd look worse on them, whether they did or not. I had to laugh at Rob Smedley's horrendous 'coded message' and excuses though.
It was a far more excusable situation that the Schumacher-Barrichello incident in Austria '02 as well. Back then, Schumacher really didn't need those points, he was miles clear. Now, while Alonso's still a bit off the pace in the championship, he's further ahead than Massa, considerably, and would definitely benefit from a bigger haul in terms of the team getting some sort of success out of the season. At the time of the move, Vettel was catching the Ferraris, both were down on pace due to Massa having to defend, it wasn't worth them getting into the situation of having a rival driver potentially managing to overtake both of them while they battled amongst themselves. While it looks like Alonso was given favouritism, it was essentially done to protect the team's success.
I agree with their decision, even though I can't stand Alonso, and i would've loved to see Massa win a race again.
It was a far more excusable situation that the Schumacher-Barrichello incident in Austria '02 as well. Back then, Schumacher really didn't need those points, he was miles clear. Now, while Alonso's still a bit off the pace in the championship, he's further ahead than Massa, considerably, and would definitely benefit from a bigger haul in terms of the team getting some sort of success out of the season. At the time of the move, Vettel was catching the Ferraris, both were down on pace due to Massa having to defend, it wasn't worth them getting into the situation of having a rival driver potentially managing to overtake both of them while they battled amongst themselves. While it looks like Alonso was given favouritism, it was essentially done to protect the team's success.
I agree with their decision, even though I can't stand Alonso, and i would've loved to see Massa win a race again.
If you look at the lap times and the gaps Vettel was not closing in, Massa had just passed some traffic so Alonso got closer. All 3 cars were near enough on the same pace, they were trading fastest laps at that point. Even in the tow at the start of the race Vettel could not get close to them. At the time the pass took place Alonso was over a second behind going into that lap 1.5 to be exact, he lost 1 second passing another car.
I know why they did it for the drivers championship and its totally rubbish that they are saying Vettel was closing in. He could not challenge them at the start of the race and would not have been able to at the end.
Yes the logical thing to to do was to let Alonso win as he has more points, but in F1 moving the other driver over is a rule break and thats the problem. The thing is we all new it was going to happen. Alonso was moaning on the radio waving his arm out the car.
Their reasons do not add up which is why they are being sent to the World Council where many expect them to lose this result just like Mclaren and Lewis did in Australia in 2009.
Rules are rules and remember how upset Ferrari and Alonso were at Valencia when Alonso felt the the race had been fixed. Well Ferrari broke the rules now.
Horner said that Webber was holding up Vettel in Turkey but they had no choice but to let them race it out or they would have broken rules.
It will be interesting to see the out come of this.
I know why they did it for the drivers championship and its totally rubbish that they are saying Vettel was closing in. He could not challenge them at the start of the race and would not have been able to at the end.
Yes the logical thing to to do was to let Alonso win as he has more points, but in F1 moving the other driver over is a rule break and thats the problem. The thing is we all new it was going to happen. Alonso was moaning on the radio waving his arm out the car.
Their reasons do not add up which is why they are being sent to the World Council where many expect them to lose this result just like Mclaren and Lewis did in Australia in 2009.
Rules are rules and remember how upset Ferrari and Alonso were at Valencia when Alonso felt the the race had been fixed. Well Ferrari broke the rules now.
Horner said that Webber was holding up Vettel in Turkey but they had no choice but to let them race it out or they would have broken rules.
It will be interesting to see the out come of this.
Martyn
Giga Poster
marc said:
No, but if Massa and Alonso were in a battle for the lead, he would have done. Like I said, as soon as you start driving defensively, your laps get slower. You see it all the time, in any series. A battle for the lead between the top two, and the third place man often just runs in and nicks it from both of them.
The other teams have used team orders this year, they've just done it in more subtle ways.
Ferrari's arrogant response and generic denial was the only thing that annoyed me. I really don't see anything wrong with the decision itself and think that the rules need another rewrite.
Yes I agree with you, but I dont think they would have started to fight as Massa was on the same pace as Alonso, he only dropped back after Alonso had passed him. If they were going to lose time flighting they should have held station then as they probably would have done had it been Massa in 2nd
Tbh we dont know what would have happened as they did not allow us to find out.
Alonso and Massa were fighting earlier in the race and still Vettel could not get close though. Plus we have all seen Vettel try and pass people, it does not happen
It was also clear in the race that Button was faster than Lewis, but Mclaren did not move Lewis out the way even though Webber was closer to Button than Vettel was to Alonso.
As I said its the silly reasons that Ferrari gave that have annoyed people, people are not stupid and there are enough people on F1 forums that have looked at the gap and lap time data.
I know its a silly rule as it happens all the time, just the 1st time it has been done like this in ages.
In 2008 Lewis passed Kovy after his pit stop and many people complained that Kovy was told to let him pass even though Kovy said he was not told. Ferrari took it to the FIA and they then listened to all the radio traffic, Kovy had indeed been given no order at all he did just let Lewis pass him so Lewis could go on to try and pass Massa and Piquet.
The race was rubbish anyway, just nothing happening and thats probably why this is such a big talking point along with felxi wings that Ferrari and rbr are running.
I am not saying you and Rob are wrong and I am right btw, it is a silly rule but it is there to stop teams doing what Ferrari done yesterday. They should have just told Massa he was short on fuel.
Edit. It now turns out Massa was given that message 2 laps before slowing down to let Alonso pass. Massa was actually setting the faster laps when he was told Alonso was faster, he had a 4 second lead.
Tbh we dont know what would have happened as they did not allow us to find out.
Alonso and Massa were fighting earlier in the race and still Vettel could not get close though. Plus we have all seen Vettel try and pass people, it does not happen
It was also clear in the race that Button was faster than Lewis, but Mclaren did not move Lewis out the way even though Webber was closer to Button than Vettel was to Alonso.
As I said its the silly reasons that Ferrari gave that have annoyed people, people are not stupid and there are enough people on F1 forums that have looked at the gap and lap time data.
I know its a silly rule as it happens all the time, just the 1st time it has been done like this in ages.
In 2008 Lewis passed Kovy after his pit stop and many people complained that Kovy was told to let him pass even though Kovy said he was not told. Ferrari took it to the FIA and they then listened to all the radio traffic, Kovy had indeed been given no order at all he did just let Lewis pass him so Lewis could go on to try and pass Massa and Piquet.
The race was rubbish anyway, just nothing happening and thats probably why this is such a big talking point along with felxi wings that Ferrari and rbr are running.
I am not saying you and Rob are wrong and I am right btw, it is a silly rule but it is there to stop teams doing what Ferrari done yesterday. They should have just told Massa he was short on fuel.
Edit. It now turns out Massa was given that message 2 laps before slowing down to let Alonso pass. Massa was actually setting the faster laps when he was told Alonso was faster, he had a 4 second lead.
One for Martyn and Rob here. Take a look at these pictures and say if you feel they are the same angle etc.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/p ... -yourself/
Ferrari and rbr have illegal flexi front wings that the fia could find nothing wrong with. The gap is meant to be 25mm about the track both of theirs are not 25mm when at speed Mclaren and Mercs are.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/p ... -yourself/
Ferrari and rbr have illegal flexi front wings that the fia could find nothing wrong with. The gap is meant to be 25mm about the track both of theirs are not 25mm when at speed Mclaren and Mercs are.
robbeal
Hyper Poster
All this stuff with clever parts is getting ridiculous. Basically, a load of rules have been set, and if a designer is clever enough to find a way around a rule without technically breaking it, he ends up being punished, not praised! In a sport where technology is paramount, and everything is very much at the forefront of the field, teams are always going to find ways to get one up on everyone else, and all the sport does is go and ban it. Within the last 18 months, we've had double-decker diffusers, F-ducts, exhuast-blown diffusers and now these dodgy flexi-wings. They're all brilliant bits of technology, and they're all frowned upon. Part of me thinks it'd just be better to let the teams find their way around the rules, it might force the other teams, the ones who aren't coming up with these technologies, to up their game.
More to the point, 'JamesAllenonF1.com'? Can he not just let go...? Stop the cock.
More to the point, 'JamesAllenonF1.com'? Can he not just let go...? Stop the cock.
Nic
Strata Poster
I agree with Rob. Banning new developments (which are within the rules) as soon as they arrive is essentially taking away the team and manufacturer aspect of the contest. If they want to do that, why not just go the whole hog and provide identical cars for each team. It's a bit silly.
Well it looks like after the race this weekend the other teams will make a protest. Ferrari have gone back to the old style wing but rbr are still using theirs. I still do not see how they can protest a wing which is legal, the other teams will just have to get one.
The wing is also seen to be flexing forwards but this is not part of the tests either lol.
Rbr have been so clever at getting round the loop hole, it is no shock that Newey is still the greatest man in F1.
The f-duct was a great idea as well, but now most of the teams have it it's not an advantage for Mclaren.
The wing is also seen to be flexing forwards but this is not part of the tests either lol.
Rbr have been so clever at getting round the loop hole, it is no shock that Newey is still the greatest man in F1.
The f-duct was a great idea as well, but now most of the teams have it it's not an advantage for Mclaren.
