CF UK Election
- Thread starter mouse
- Start date
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
Did you vote for AV back in 2011 Dan? If not, then you cannot really complain about the 'bias' voting system.
As a woman and part of the LGBT community, who lives in North Kent, I am vocal about my dislike of UKIP. I think I speak on behalf of many here who are very glad that Farage didn't get in and feel that 1 seat for UKIP is one too many. Not only do they not represent my views but many of thier members have actively spoken out with radically racist or homophobic or sexist comments. Many have been disposed of, but the fact remains that people of that inclination will always be attracted to UKIP and in my mind, the party will always represent a face of bigotry and regressive politics. I know several people who voted UKIP, including family members, and I say the same thing to them that I'll say here: no matter if you hold that kind of view or not, if you support UKIP, then that's the way you will be perceived by the majority of people, those who support fairness and equality.
As for voting for the same party for a number of years...why would you not? I didn't changed my ethics just because an election was coming up. No party changes thier view that much, they just tweak around the edges.
I still believe that many things are broken within our current political system and fptp is just one of them. What about constant boundary reform to redistribute votes towards those already in power? Or the fact that we cannot vote online (something that would encourage more young people to vote, who are typically more left-leaning)? Or that 16 to 18 year olds get to work, pay tax, fight for our country, but do not get to vote?
Or perhaps we can all work really hard and get voted in as a Lord, or as a member of the royal family...
As a woman and part of the LGBT community, who lives in North Kent, I am vocal about my dislike of UKIP. I think I speak on behalf of many here who are very glad that Farage didn't get in and feel that 1 seat for UKIP is one too many. Not only do they not represent my views but many of thier members have actively spoken out with radically racist or homophobic or sexist comments. Many have been disposed of, but the fact remains that people of that inclination will always be attracted to UKIP and in my mind, the party will always represent a face of bigotry and regressive politics. I know several people who voted UKIP, including family members, and I say the same thing to them that I'll say here: no matter if you hold that kind of view or not, if you support UKIP, then that's the way you will be perceived by the majority of people, those who support fairness and equality.
As for voting for the same party for a number of years...why would you not? I didn't changed my ethics just because an election was coming up. No party changes thier view that much, they just tweak around the edges.
I still believe that many things are broken within our current political system and fptp is just one of them. What about constant boundary reform to redistribute votes towards those already in power? Or the fact that we cannot vote online (something that would encourage more young people to vote, who are typically more left-leaning)? Or that 16 to 18 year olds get to work, pay tax, fight for our country, but do not get to vote?
Or perhaps we can all work really hard and get voted in as a Lord, or as a member of the royal family...
spicy
Giga Poster
This makes for an interesting read in regards to the voting system:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281
Regardless of what you think of UKIP, looking at that its quite clear to see why its supporters feel hard done by with the current voting system in place. Same goes for the Green Party.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281
Regardless of what you think of UKIP, looking at that its quite clear to see why its supporters feel hard done by with the current voting system in place. Same goes for the Green Party.
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
The Lib Dems have felt hard done by for years. Fptp works as an effective method of keeping out small radical parties (as long as that vote is well distributed across the country) but once a party gets to a considerable size, fptp just prevents a third party from ever taking a meaningful amount of power.
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
I can't see it changing anytime soon. We only just had a vote 4 years ago and the Tories will not want to change a system that works in thier favour.
In a few years, if the British public vote for an exit from the EU and our new strong SNP Scotland want to stay in, that'll be all the fuel Cameron needs to push for another Scottish vote on independence. That'll be it... there'll be no getting rid of the Tories. EVER. Worst case scenario obviously, but one that is terrifyingly possible.
In a few years, if the British public vote for an exit from the EU and our new strong SNP Scotland want to stay in, that'll be all the fuel Cameron needs to push for another Scottish vote on independence. That'll be it... there'll be no getting rid of the Tories. EVER. Worst case scenario obviously, but one that is terrifyingly possible.
Mysterious Sue said:
Thing is... While you may not agree - there are a lot of people who don't think that's a bad thing. In fact, enough to get the Tories in again this time
If there had been good opposition to the Tories, then they would have lost. That won't change in the future either. If we exit the EU, chances are the country will die very rapidly and then the Tories will not be voted back in. People are fickle and they will follow good leadership (or the best on offer) over policy any day. Most people don't care what policy is (and for the most part, most people will find every party offers something that fits but no party offers everything) in terms of a party, but rather there is a strong leader.
There could easily be a strong Liberal leader appear now and make the party popular enough to swing the voters- we just don't know.
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
It doesn't matter if you wanted a Tory Government or not, it's not right for any party to change the game board when in power to make sure that they stay in power. Scottish independence has only been on the table over the last few years because it serves the party in power, not because it's good for the country.
I believe in democracy not short-sighted party-based politics. The Tories were voted in by a majority (under the current system at least) so I have no problem with that. I'm just explaining that the flawed voting system others have spoken about goes deeper than Fptp.
I believe in democracy not short-sighted party-based politics. The Tories were voted in by a majority (under the current system at least) so I have no problem with that. I'm just explaining that the flawed voting system others have spoken about goes deeper than Fptp.
Jordanovichy
Credit Whore 2016
UKIP have **** well refused to accept Farage's resignation...therefore he is staying on as party leader.
To be honest, I am not surprised...he has done well to be honest, what was UKIP? Third most voted for party in England...say what you like, that's not a bad achievement, as unfortunate as it might be!
I also like how David Miliband (Ed Miliband's brother, the guy he beat in Labour's leader election thing), has stabbed Ed in the back criticising his campaign. Oh politics. <3
To be honest, I am not surprised...he has done well to be honest, what was UKIP? Third most voted for party in England...say what you like, that's not a bad achievement, as unfortunate as it might be!
I also like how David Miliband (Ed Miliband's brother, the guy he beat in Labour's leader election thing), has stabbed Ed in the back criticising his campaign. Oh politics. <3
Dan1989
Mega Poster
To be honest, even though I'm 25 This was the first time I ever voted, as I never saw the need until I lived in Blackpool for 5 years under a conservative government. I did my research on most of the parties and UKIP appealed the most to me, I don't think we should be and EU member and that is what I believe, if you think I'm right or not, that s my view and as a so called *free man* I have a right to it without scrutiny.
as far as I see it,
Labor - war criminals that messed our economy up
Conservatives - Steel from the poor and common and give to the rich
Lib Dem - Do I need to say anything?
Greens - would mess the economy up even more than labor
SNP (i'm English so can vote for them) - but they want to divide the nation up
Ukip - I'm a believe in independence, the longer way stay in the EU the less independent we actually are. W are heading for a sort of *United States of Europe*. I DO NOT want that to happen to The Uk. Yeah migration plays a part in my choice but as stated my main reason for voting UKIP is supporting Independence.
as far as I see it,
Labor - war criminals that messed our economy up
Conservatives - Steel from the poor and common and give to the rich
Lib Dem - Do I need to say anything?
Greens - would mess the economy up even more than labor
SNP (i'm English so can vote for them) - but they want to divide the nation up
Ukip - I'm a believe in independence, the longer way stay in the EU the less independent we actually are. W are heading for a sort of *United States of Europe*. I DO NOT want that to happen to The Uk. Yeah migration plays a part in my choice but as stated my main reason for voting UKIP is supporting Independence.
Dan1989 said:
Please do. You've intrigued me. If you only mention the university fee thing (of which could not be helped as they were not the majority party and they still managed to place a cap on fees rather than let them spiral out of control which is what the Tories wanted) then you're argument would be weak.
Although I agree with parts of what UKIP are on about (EU being able to place a generic rule for all countries without consideration for how it would affect local cities etc as everywhere works differently, has their own culture etc is just wrong) but that's just such a small part of what they stand for and their old fashioned bigotry way of thinking makes me dismiss anything that might make sense.
Dan1989
Mega Poster
in all honesty, if I did vote back in 2010 then I would of chose Lib dem as I'm a sucker for the underdog. To be fair, without the Lib dems in government for the last 5 years things would of been a hell of a lot worse. They have my gratitude for that.
I just think that they had to betray a lot of their own code (making a deal with devil, so to speak). I guess democracy is the art of compromise, they just compromised far to much especially when tuition was part of their main policy
I just think that they had to betray a lot of their own code (making a deal with devil, so to speak). I guess democracy is the art of compromise, they just compromised far to much especially when tuition was part of their main policy
Jordanovichy
Credit Whore 2016
I would have a lot more sympathy for the Lib Dems over the whole tuition fees fiasco if Nick Clegg has voted no or even abstained but instead he voted in favour of it.
Two faced backstabbing ****.
Two faced backstabbing ****.
Smithy
Strata Poster
Actually, I'd rather show you up myself;
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.p ... llpossible
91.4% of Conservative MP's voted in favour of it, only 83.2% of Labour MP's did.
In terms of foreign policy UKIP are the most likely party to lead us into another war so why on Earth you'd use the war on Iraq to criticise another party is beyond me.
Don't get me started on the claims about them messing the economy up either, they were by no means perfect but I get the impression your knowledge on the matter would cease after you pull out a few tabloid buzz phrases such as "long-term economic plan".
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.p ... llpossible
91.4% of Conservative MP's voted in favour of it, only 83.2% of Labour MP's did.
In terms of foreign policy UKIP are the most likely party to lead us into another war so why on Earth you'd use the war on Iraq to criticise another party is beyond me.
Don't get me started on the claims about them messing the economy up either, they were by no means perfect but I get the impression your knowledge on the matter would cease after you pull out a few tabloid buzz phrases such as "long-term economic plan".
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
Calling the GLOBAL economic meltdown the fault of Labour is the single most ridiculous argument of the whole election and has really made my blood boil.
Labour did what everyone else did in a time of boom: spend. Except they spent that money on healthcare and on education. The last major boom was during the 80s. What did the Tories spend that money on then? Making the rich richer.
I believe jn the stronger power of a unified UK and a unified Europe. But even if you don't believe in the EU, it is hard to envisage how we would remain a dominant economic force without it. You may argue that other countries, such as Norway, negotiated thier place in Europe without being in the EU, but during the 80s boom, they invested oil money back into the country, something which, again, the Tories failed to do. We do not have a strong enough economy to risk such independence in my view. Leaving the EU would be gambling with our future out of a sense of ideology.
Labour did what everyone else did in a time of boom: spend. Except they spent that money on healthcare and on education. The last major boom was during the 80s. What did the Tories spend that money on then? Making the rich richer.
I believe jn the stronger power of a unified UK and a unified Europe. But even if you don't believe in the EU, it is hard to envisage how we would remain a dominant economic force without it. You may argue that other countries, such as Norway, negotiated thier place in Europe without being in the EU, but during the 80s boom, they invested oil money back into the country, something which, again, the Tories failed to do. We do not have a strong enough economy to risk such independence in my view. Leaving the EU would be gambling with our future out of a sense of ideology.