STC
Mega Poster
I was there when it opened and managed, with a little digging, to find out a few little bits of interesting information from asking the management there. I posted it somewhere else a few days ago but thought it might be interesting to those who haven't seen it, hope you don't mind. 
Since then someone has mentioned that management aren't happy with the current visitor numbers to the existing hotels, despite high gate figures detailed above. New hotel plans will probably be on the backburner for a while, unless they are going to do a cheaper hotel.
- I talked to a member of management there and he said they are thinking of either relocating Spinball internally or selling it. However, he said it was unlikely it would move to another Merlin park. He didn't seem very happy with the ride when talking about it, almost like it was a burden.
- The main point of interest in the exhibition was a map of Alton, with their ideas penciled in over the top. They made a big fuss about an "activated link" between the hotels and Air, and I asked a someone who was floating around and they said they wanted to create "continuity" between the park and the resort area. Along this link was designated an "entertainment area", presumably a Universal CityWalk style thing.
- The camp ground accommodation is planned for where one of the overflow car parks is now. It would be linked to the current hotel area by another area designated a "entertainment area". The campground accommodation potential area looked pretty big.
- They are considering an extension to ATH, which was clearly marked. It would be another wing that went on the lawn next to the lake with the stepping stones, adjacent to the woodland walk.
- It looked from the plans like they are planning TWO new hotels on the Field of 1001 Screams area. Two clearly separate blocks of colour their designated "possible accommodation".
- I asked about the entrance. The man from management said they were undecided whether to just scrap the Towers Street entrance all together. On the map, Towers Street and Old McDonalds Farm were labeled as two of the areas for a "possible retheme".
- The Flume retheme wasn't labeled as clearly as that. Just the area where the Flume is was marked as one of the areas for a "possible retheme" . Other areas that came under this category included Cloud Cuckoo Land, Ugland, Towers Street, Old Mcdonalds Farm, Storybook Land and Forbidden Valley.
- A board told us that when developing the plan the management had considered four options. These were "No Investment", "Small Investment", "Medium Investment" and "High Investment". The one the plan is based on is "Medium Investment". That was very interesting I think.
- Sites for potential new rollercoasters: around the back of Cloud Cuckoo Land, Ugland where SW6 is (not sure if this is meant to actually BE SW6 or a third coaster...) and Forbidden Valley, round the back of this "activated link" area but on the side of the valley. Basically the exact route of the woodland walk was designated. I guess the Cloud Cuckoo Land ride would be a kiddie coaster, would work well there in the old coaster corner. I'm at a total loss as to the Forbidden Valley one, seems a very bizarre place to put a new coaster...
- Attendance is at it's highest since 1994. Another very minor point. They made a LOT of fuss about their commitment to heritage and ecology. Pumping a lot of money into that it seems, or it seems like it to keep the residents happy. The few other people we saw in their were residents, it's obviously geared towards them.
- Four "new or rethemed" attractions in the next 5 years. But only 6 in the next 10 :? Maybe all the resort stuff above like the new hotels and "activated link" will be the main investment in the latter 5 years?
Since then someone has mentioned that management aren't happy with the current visitor numbers to the existing hotels, despite high gate figures detailed above. New hotel plans will probably be on the backburner for a while, unless they are going to do a cheaper hotel.
Screaming Coasters
Strata Poster
Just lower the prices of the existing hotels and don't be so stingy with the offers! You used to get park entry, fasttrack and waterpark entrance for free. Now for £200 a night, you get NOTHING! Who the **** would pay 200 quid a night, in a 3 star hotel and get nothing? Hell, you don't even pay that in some 5 stars!
Erol you feel the same way as me.
3 nights at Alton would cost me £600 and then I need park entrence on top and petrol.
3 night at DLP would cost me £400, I know where I would go thank you very much.
I can even go to Orlando for 2 weeks for £1000.
For me this Alton plan offers nothing at all, but for the families it might. So much could be done at Alton and I just feel its being wasted.
3 nights at Alton would cost me £600 and then I need park entrence on top and petrol.
3 night at DLP would cost me £400, I know where I would go thank you very much.
I can even go to Orlando for 2 weeks for £1000.
For me this Alton plan offers nothing at all, but for the families it might. So much could be done at Alton and I just feel its being wasted.
Scott88
Hyper Poster
This is not a dig at anyone btw, but I cannot help thinking that if Pleasure Beach released plans for the next ten years and they were anything like the plans of Alton Towers, they would be getting slated!
When I was at school, most people knew Alton Towers for adding a major new coaster every few years, a theme park which was exclusive to thrill rides. Its all good and well getting families into the park, but I am starting to think they are forgetting about us thrillseekers and concentrating a bit too much on the family side of things.
I just hope for there sake that this new ride for 2010 will not be a disappointment, otherwise theres going to be alot of ranting done by those who loved Corkscrew.
When I was at school, most people knew Alton Towers for adding a major new coaster every few years, a theme park which was exclusive to thrill rides. Its all good and well getting families into the park, but I am starting to think they are forgetting about us thrillseekers and concentrating a bit too much on the family side of things.
I just hope for there sake that this new ride for 2010 will not be a disappointment, otherwise theres going to be alot of ranting done by those who loved Corkscrew.
Bicko said:
No, but it does look like Blackpool's 15 year LTDP set out in 1995
Haven't added a new coaster since 1994. Other than that, a major dark/water ride and a flat or two. Both Alton and Blackpool for the last few years have been concentrating on "infrastructure" which has been neglected at both parks.
Now that it's all done and dusted and the basics both parks should be looking at adding new attractions.
Alton have four mid-large scale rides planned for the next five years. I would make special wee if Blackpool came forward with a plan like that!
We know that SW6 is one of these.Bicko said:
The thing is, all those thrill rides are still there. When I was at school, Blackpool was known as the place and until I was 15 (1988) Blackpool was 100% considered the best of the two parks. I'd even say right up until 1995 there was very little to differentiate between the two parks in terms of thrill. Alton has always had a very large family orientation too though. Amongst the large thrill ride installs, there's always been a concentration of a couple of years on the family side.
By adding Spinball and Rita (Rita in particular is classed by the GP as the best ride on the park remember) - Alton did very little to increase their gate figures. Two years of concentrating on family and the gate figures are the highest ever. It IS frustrating not having a new mega-thrill ride go in for five years - but the bottom line is that gate numbers and profits are higher because of it.
However, Alton know they have to stay on top of the game, so now have this development plan to bring in the four new rides - at least one of them is going to be thrill oriented. They can monopolise on and reinvest the cash from the families.
Bicko said:
It's going to be what it is, but the Corkscrew was piss poor, so anything in its place is going to be better. Yes, the Corkscrew was important historically for Alton, but it didn't make it worth keeping. Personally, I'll be more disappointed if SW6 has anything more than a 1.2M height limit, as that means Alton have removed a young thrill seeker ride and are actually taking away from the family element in the mid-range, where Alton is currently floundering a bit.
Can you please, please, please ask Amanda to make a 10 year plan like this Bicko? One new coaster confirmed and three other rides (probably flat) in the next five years. I'd go back to Blackpool if they did that.
Unless PBB's five year plan is a fountain every other year, with a new oyster bar between years?
Screaming Coasters
Strata Poster
I think Altons next move after this coaster is to fill out the Black Hole. Some sort of omnimover would be great?
Scott88
Hyper Poster
Ok, Infusion might be relocated, but its still ''new'' to Pleasure Beach and not everyone knows its from Southport, most enthusiasts know but people outside of the enthusiast world may not know.
Infusion opened in 2007, then the Adventure Golf in 2008 and the fountain was added for this year, so who knows what to expect for 2010? Most people are talking about a Beaver Creek re-brand, including new attractions, which would probably have the same effect as Thomas Land at Drayton Manor. Most rumours suggest that will happen, as well as Rollercoaster and Goldmine re-opening for next season, but I am not confirming this or telling you it will happen, I am just making a point that those are the strong rumours doing the rounds for PBB atm.
Alton Towers gate figures have improved in the last two years, but to be honest they had to and I think this has been helped by the huge amount of offers that towers make available. Without those discount vouchers and many offers that towers flood the market with, I honestly dont think they would be having a good year for gate figures like they have done up to now, they wouldnt be doing badly, but I dont think they'd be doing as well for numbers as they are.
Mutiny Bay never ever seems to be busy, yet thats still a fairly new attraction, so I dont think its all down to the family side of things that the park has suddenly got busy again, I think its down to the BOGOF's.
So in 15 years, two thrill rides at PBB. Then golf, fountains and a rebrand of a kids area next year - yet you say Alton aren't doing enough for the Thrill seeker?
I think it's a universal thing if you look everywhere (in the UK) other than Thorpe - which is planned as a pure thrill seeker park.
There are definitely more families going to Alton now, and it is definitely the families that have increased the gate figures. They may not be spending time in the family areas, but it's the promise of those attractions bringing them in.
Before I had an AP, I used to visit Alton three times a year using BOGOFs. If they hadn't been easy to come by, I'd not have visited so much - the BOGOFs are no more available now than at any time before.
Yes, the BOGOFs 100% help gate figures, but no more now than ten years ago.
I think it's a universal thing if you look everywhere (in the UK) other than Thorpe - which is planned as a pure thrill seeker park.
There are definitely more families going to Alton now, and it is definitely the families that have increased the gate figures. They may not be spending time in the family areas, but it's the promise of those attractions bringing them in.
Before I had an AP, I used to visit Alton three times a year using BOGOFs. If they hadn't been easy to come by, I'd not have visited so much - the BOGOFs are no more available now than at any time before.
Yes, the BOGOFs 100% help gate figures, but no more now than ten years ago.
Bicko I am not having a go at you here ok.
All Blackpool seem to be doing to shutting rides down.
I went to Blackpool the year the PMBO opened and I can say that if I go there today I can ride 3 less coasters, that is not very good. But now I can pay more and look at some water.
I think their 15 year plan would say houses and hotels maybe some shops. Hope I am wrong.
But regarding the plan from Alton, maybe out that list 3 things will happen we shall see. With regards to that water right Alton put in, people can walk past it and not even notice it. I really do not think they made a good job of the area.
All Blackpool seem to be doing to shutting rides down.
I went to Blackpool the year the PMBO opened and I can say that if I go there today I can ride 3 less coasters, that is not very good. But now I can pay more and look at some water.
I think their 15 year plan would say houses and hotels maybe some shops. Hope I am wrong.
But regarding the plan from Alton, maybe out that list 3 things will happen we shall see. With regards to that water right Alton put in, people can walk past it and not even notice it. I really do not think they made a good job of the area.
Scott88
Hyper Poster
Which park has got more coasters? Pleasure Beach.
Pleasure Beach has got ten coasters, one water ride which is seen by many as fantastic and a few half decent flat rides, Alton Towers has got eight coasters, two ageing water rides and a few flat rides which receive nothing but negative comments.
Pleasure Beach may not be adding new rides year after year, but they are cleaning up the park, Amanda wants the park to look good and she wants to remove this image of PBB being a ''dump'', because people see it as a tacky seaside resort, but the more work that gets done around the park, the better the park looks. In fact its looking so much better than it did a few years ago.
A few rides have closed, but without ride removals, you arent going to see any new rides, because remeber unlike Alton Towers, Pleasure Beach do not have alot of space to use and they dont have the same money backup as towers.
I am pretty sure Rollercoaster and Goldmine will re-open at Pleasure Beach next season, as well as Forbidden and Hot Ice returning which will add to the Pleasure Beach attraction line up.
I know PBB have got a seven year plan but havent released these plans, I am sure we will see a major new attraction in the next few years.
Why don't they just bulldoze the area were they have these cabaret shows, because when I go to a theme park I sure as hell don't want to watch shows or play mini golf or watch a water fountain. I want to go on rides. If I want to watch a show then I will go to one of the piers in Blackpool.
Surely by getting rid of the shows will save them some cash by not having an empty arena. Also with these new charges and less maintenance money having to be spent on the closed roller coasters, they should have enough cash to afford a decent attraction.
It looks like BPB take the easy way out and install the cheapest attractions they can get away with and hype them up.
Okay back to Alton now .
Surely by getting rid of the shows will save them some cash by not having an empty arena. Also with these new charges and less maintenance money having to be spent on the closed roller coasters, they should have enough cash to afford a decent attraction.
It looks like BPB take the easy way out and install the cheapest attractions they can get away with and hype them up.
Okay back to Alton now
.
Scott88
Hyper Poster
Emmett said:Why don't they just bulldoze the area were they have these cabaret shows, because when I go to a theme park I sure as hell don't want to watch shows or play mini golf or watch a water fountain. I want to go on rides. If I want to watch a show then I will go to one of the piers in Blackpool.
Surely by getting rid of the shows will save them some cash by not having an empty arena. Also with these new charges and less maintenance money having to be spent on the closed roller coasters, they should have enough cash to afford a decent attraction.
It looks like BPB take the easy way out and install the cheapest attractions they can get away with and hype them up.
Okay back to Alton now
Sorry one last thing before going back to Alton. Alot of people do like the shows, especially Hot Ice and Forbidden, so they wont be removed permantely, they just arent on this year due to cost cutting.
Anyway, back to Alton.
I honestly do feel that thrillseekers will start to get a little bit annoyed if towers continue to focus on families and not thrillseekers. While I was working there last year, alot of guests would ask, what is the new rollercoaster going to be next year? The only response to that question was, nothing and then the guest would be asking why.
I just dont think they continue to be 100% family focused because in the end thrillseekers (not enthusiasts) will eventually become bored of doing the same rides every year and will start going somewhere else, which has got a new ride or two to offer.
On the subject of removing rides, what did Alton Towers do this year? They removed an iconic rollercoaster and re-themed a kids area.
Cutting costs and charging more in just doesn't add up to me. They must be desperate. I also heard visitor numbers were down by 26% for the whole of Blackpool last year so if they have no money to operate a show they are never going to be able to afford another decent coaster.
You never know they might be able to do a second hand deal with Camelot at the end of the year for some used rides.
You never know they might be able to do a second hand deal with Camelot at the end of the year for some used rides.
STC
Mega Poster
Iconic maybe, but utter crap. Iconic rides only can only justifiably be kept if they still offer a great ride experience, like the Grand National or the Wild Mouse. The Corkscrew is one of the worst coasters I have ever been on if you look at it purely as a ride. On top of that the theming was almost non-existant at ANY point in it's history and it certainly didn't have any of the elusive "magic".Bicko said:
Now Black Hole, THAT was a ride that had magic. That's the Alton Towers ride the mourn the passing of if you had to pick one.
I wish Amanada would realise that nobody cares about the shows. Like you said, theres a billion places along the golden mile to see a tacky show, theres only one place to get decent quality coasters. I am worried that Amanada will have a bit of a tantrum that no-one wants to see the shows, and will take it out on the park by knocking down a ride for a show (Space Invader?). She clearly doesn't care at all about rides, or have any respect for the heritage of them (Cyclone removal).Emmett said:
I'm a little confused here. If the shows were actually making money then removing them wouldn't be cost cutting. If not then why would they open them next year? :?Bicko said:
They could get Whirlwind, it's compact and a damn intense ride. Only problem is low capacity, but it's no worse than the mouse.Emmett said:
Back to Alton, the family-thrill market is going to become the dominant business model for the industry over the next decade. There'll always be a few exceptions, like Thorpe or Great Adventure, but why build rides that only thrill seekers can go on when you can build a ride families can go on AND thrill seekers will still do? Families spend more money on park too remember...