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Blackpool Pleasure Beach | Icon | Mack Multi-Launch

Mysterious Sue

Strata Poster
Thanks for the "you are wrong because (insert totally unrelated stuff)". We were comparing layouts, especially the first half of it (the part between the two launches). We all know that neither the launches nor the theming are ever going to be comparable with Taron's.

But the intensity of the launches affects the speed of the rest of the layout!

I never tell anyone they're wrong (I'm not one of those cretins), just having a discussion. I'm just finding it hard to compare and find Icon come out on top. We'll all find out for real soon enough but if we don't debate the pointless then what on earth is this forum for?
 

balrog

Mega Poster
But the intensity of the launches affects the speed of the rest of the layout!

I never tell anyone they're wrong (I'm not one of those cretins), just having a discussion. I'm just finding it hard to compare and find Icon come out on top. We'll all find out for real soon enough but if we don't debate the pointless then what on earth is this forum for?
Sorry, I think we just completely misunderstood each other :).

The intensity of the launch doesn't affect in fine the speed of the rest of the layout : when designing a rollercoaster, if you want the train to get to a certain speed using a launch, there is two factors you can play with : launch length and acceleration rate. The intensity of the launch being given by the acceleration rate. The thing is, when you design a layout, the train has to have a given speed to go through it and offer the intended sensations, so whatever is your acceleration rate, you want your train to exit the launch at a certain speed. Therefore, you adjust the launch length. Mack rides LSM launch have lower acceleration rates than Intamins, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily slower, just that their launches are longer. So Mack launch coaster layouts are not bound to be less intense rides than Intamin ones, even if their launches are less intense.
 

Peet

Giga Poster
I think Icon will be pretty special because of all of the interactions with other rides, it won't be the best in the UK but it will be pretty good. Construction updates seem to have dried up for a while.
I know I should be really looking forward to riding but now all I can think of is the gaping hole next to River Caves that I'll have to walk past to get to it :-(
 
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rob666

Hyper Poster
...then go past Alice and the Arena ramp then!
Construction took a long Christmas break, so they only started work again yesterday.
 

Dave

CF Legend
But the intensity of the launches affects the speed of the rest of the layout!

I never tell anyone they're wrong (I'm not one of those cretins), just having a discussion. I'm just finding it hard to compare and find Icon come out on top. We'll all find out for real soon enough but if we don't debate the pointless then what on earth is this forum for?
Taron's first launch feels fast due to the track and rock all around you. Then the second one might as well be going to hyperspace, so intense but fantastic.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

Lofty

CF Legend
Helix's launches do not feel like launches, they feel like gentle pushes to get you to the correct speed. The good thing that goes in the favour of Icon is that both launches are significantly shorter than Helix's, not to mention the first launch is from a static starting point. I think the first launch won't have a 'kick' ala Intamin launch, but it'll feel just like Blue Fire's, so you get an initial burst of speed then it takes a few beats to hit it's maximum speed. But at the end of the day, this coaster isn't really about the launches, is it? It's about the second half ;)
 

Sandman

Giga Poster
Helix's launches do not feel like launches, they feel like gentle pushes to get you to the correct speed. The good thing that goes in the favour of Icon is that both launches are significantly shorter than Helix's, not to mention the first launch is from a static starting point. I think the first launch won't have a 'kick' ala Intamin launch, but it'll feel just like Blue Fire's, so you get an initial burst of speed then it takes a few beats to hit it's maximum speed. But at the end of the day, this coaster isn't really about the launches, is it? It's about the second half ;)

Also, Icon's highest point is 40ft smaller than Helix's, and it's almost 1000ft shorter than Helix. Icon also stays closer to the ground more than Helix, so they are really hoping to milk every inch of that 49mph top speed. It honestly shouldn't feel sluggish, the speed makes more sense in the context of the layout.
 

Mysterious Sue

Strata Poster
The Mack Mega coaster is something completely different (the answer to Intamin's Megalite). Imagine a mini hyper with buckets of airtime over lots of hills. That IS completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Capitol Bullet Train and Star Trek are comparable coasters to each other - both with compact layouts and lowish speed since they have a reversable launch and spend lots of time up a spike.

Helix is more than a fair comparison to Icon as it has launches, speed, inversions and, most importantly, is terrain-hugging. Blue Fire is somewhat similar but with less terrain interaction. Manta has no inversions and is much more of a low intensity family coaster.
 
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Lofty

CF Legend
Icon, Helix and Blue Fire are comparable as they all have a similar flow (even though Blue Fire has less of so). All three coasters have similar types of launches, inversions and the odd airtime moment here and there. Capitol Bullet Train has a rolling triple launch, the backwards spike, much more compact and on flat ground, is tiny in comparison with the rest and just nothing like them.
 

vaugc002

Mega Poster
The Mack Mega coaster is something completely different (the answer to Intamin's Megalite). Imagine a mini hyper with buckets of airtime over lots of hills. That IS completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Capitol Bullet Train and Star Trek are comparable coasters to each other - both with compact layouts and lowish speed since they have a reversable launch and spend lots of time up a spike.

Helix is more than a fair comparison to Icon as it has launches, speed, inversions and, most importantly, is terrain-hugging. Blue Fire is somewhat similar but with less terrain interaction. Manta has no inversions and is much more of a low intensity family coaster.

This :emoji_point_up::emoji_raised_hands:
We wouldn't compare Gold Rush to Karacho for example so I can't see a CBT vs Icon debate as fair.
At the end of the day, Icon is proportionally lower than Helix so I'm sure the pacing will be just fine.
 

Chris Brown

Mr CoasterForce 2016
I’m probably going to regret this but I’m inclined to back up @ATI here,


I think it’s a completely fair point to compare the likes of CBT and STOE to Helix and Icon. We aren’t comparing length, excitement or inversions we are only comparing one thing and that’s the launch speed and how that effects the speed in which the rest of the layout is taken. If STOE is 5mph faster than Icon then I think they can realistically be compared. The elements aren’t hugely different, they both have inversions, they are both low to the ground, they both have tight snappy turns and both have smallish airtime hills.


The fact that CBT and STOE are triple rolling launches doesn’t make any difference to the overall launch speed which is what this whole discussion is about?


I was mentioning the launch speed of STOE to give a perspective of how a seemingly low launch speed doesn’t necessarily translate to a slow sluggish layout, the fact that Icon’s top speed is lower than STOE should naturally worry some people, I know it wont make a difference as Mack have designed the elements to be taken at the optimal speed but when push comes to shove under 50mph on paper is pretty sluggish for a coaster this size.
 

vaugc002

Mega Poster
^ but if you've got a launch halfway through the layout (like Helix & Icon) then the overall pacing of the ride will be different to those that have a launch at the beginning (CBT and STOE).

Also, I think were all on the same side here - it's going to be a solid ride regardless :)
 

Chris Brown

Mr CoasterForce 2016
^ but if you've got a launch halfway through the layout (like Helix & Icon) then the overall pacing of the ride will be different to those that have a launch at the beginning (CBT and STOE).

Also, I think were all on the same side here - it's going to be a solid ride regardless :)

Oh definitely, but that second launch is still, on paper, slower than 50mph. I’m not trying to consider the overall length of the coaster or the natural depreciation of speed through the layout. I’m solely comparing the top speed and thus the launch speed. My main point was initially trying to highlight that whilst people were worrying about a slow top speed when compared to Helix, STOE has the same trains, similar elements and will therefore give a similar perception of speed yet is still relatively slow (55mph). STOE looks incredibly slow offride and to an extent in POV’s but in my opinion doesn’t feel slow when you actually ride it. Therefore using my poor comparisons I hoped that I would ease some peoples worries regarding the top speed.


Agreed, I think this will be an incredible ride, I’m not worried about the top speed but understand why some people are, this was my (awful) attempt at a little reassurance. :D
 

Lofty

CF Legend
My main point is that the launches are incredibly different and really can't be compared? You wouldn't compare a Premier Sky Rocket II with Rita, would you?
 
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